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Shaq answers the question: Kobe or LeBron?

Aug 21, 2014, 6:12 PM EDT

Shaquille O'Neal AP

There was a time not so long ago when Shaquille O’Neal would have been more than happy to take a free verbal shot at Kobe Bryant when given the chance.

But the feud between the two superstars that won three straight championships together with the Lakers has long since been quashed.

These days, O’Neal is more interested in giving his honest assessment of things. So, when he was asked whether Kobe or LeBron James was the better player, it wasn’t too much of a surprise to see him give a somewhat diplomatic response.

From Abe Schwadron of Antenna Magazine:

  1. socalgal64 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:14 PM

    Shaq being more mature than the folks asking the questions. Never thought I’d see the day.

  2. worldbfree4me - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:18 PM

    Dr J? C’mon SON Good but not great! PIPPEN is equal to Doc. Russell, William of the Celtics by far is the G.O.A.T.

    • antistratfordian - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:26 PM

      Russell Wilson?

      • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:30 PM


        there was no “Wilson” in his comment…

      • antistratfordian - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:39 PM

        In an odd coincidence, Russell Wilson and Russell, William live within a few miles of each other.

    • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:30 PM


      compare Wilt’s stats and Russell’s…

      and don’t tell me about the 11 rings…

      Switch the teams the two were on and don’t tell me Wilt wouldn’t have 11 rings. The Celtics were a great organization.

      But, Russell would not have had the stats like Wilt did had he been on Wilt’s teams.

      Now, Russell is an all time great and in the top ten all time.

      It’s just that Wilt was a better basketball player than Russell was.

      And MJ was better than both of them.

      • riders008 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:49 PM

        There is no way to not talk about the rings …he won them wilt did notb….thats pretty big to take away….

      • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:54 PM

        i understand your point.

        one-on-one, Wilt wins 9 out of 10 times.

        Wilt was MORE dominant physically than Russell.

        And Russell’s TEAMS won rings, not just Russell.

        Again, Russell IS an all time great and in the top 10 all time, top 5 actually for me, but just a tad behind Wilt is all.

        1) MJ
        2) Wilt
        3) Magic
        4) Kareem
        5) Russell

        we’ll have to agree to disagree sir as we’re all entitled to our opinions… Anti said so below.

      • bkbell3 - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:20 PM

        Goat is about the best PLAYER, chips are about org. that make good decisions on drafting and signing free agents and a huge amount of luck that those guys were available to draft or sign at the time. Also luck in having your guys stay healthy and maybe the other teams guys not being healthy. Also good coaching and and a willingness to spend money to put great role players around stars and then some more and more luck.GOAT is about skill and ability. Russell has 11 rings and sam jones has ten rings so i guess he must be twice as good as mj and the second best player of all time behind russell… Right? See how stupid that sounds. If it is good enough for russell it has to be good enough for sam jones…Right? smh. Goat=mj=both sides of the ball domination.

      • ProBasketballPundit - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:45 PM

        You are clinically insane. One on one Wilt wins 9 of 10 times? Why don’t you go back and look at their actual one on one results. Bill Russell owned Wilt Chamberlain, particularly in the playoffs. Wilt would never have come close to Russell’s eleven rings with the Celtics.

        Heck, Bill was a player-coach for two of those rings so he really should be credited with 13 championships. Only thing Wilt could coach was his willy into some strange.

      • paleihe - Aug 21, 2014 at 8:53 PM

        This whole argument is stupid. Russell was a career 46% FG shooter. 46%. 46% for a center is horrible. One of his teammates, the “great” Bob Cousy, was a 40% FG shooter, modern day Ricky Rubio.

        Russell is not top 10, no chance. People just look at the past with rose colored shades on.

      • bhunter1995 - Aug 21, 2014 at 9:10 PM


        You are completely wrong, Bill averaged 11 PPG and 16 RPG vs Wilt, and Wilt averaged 24 PPG and 22 RPG vs Russell, nice way to quote stats like you know them when you actually don’t know the stats

      • 00maltliquor - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:02 AM

        @ paleihe

        I’m with you on that. I don’t even have Russell on my top 10. He’s behind Olajawon for me as well.

        My top 10 in no particular order:

        Big O

        Honorable mention:


        Then we can talk about Russell…

      • duhwighthoward - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:36 AM


      • billtetley53 - Aug 22, 2014 at 9:44 AM

        Malt: You say some pretty off the wall crap and I mostly just laugh at you. But placing Russel at 15th or lower is blatantly idiotic.

        Best defensive center to play the game. Again I will state, read a book. I suggest you try Tall Tales by Terry Pluto. Its a history of the NBA. He also wrote one on the ABA called Loose Balls.
        These books are told in the words of players,execs, referees and announcers. See what Russels peers say about him.

        Russell at 15 or lower is ludicrous. I know its your opinion, but its just flst out wrong

      • ProBasketballPundit - Aug 22, 2014 at 10:56 AM

        @duhwighthoward HISTORY LESSON: Phil Jackson is credited with 13 championships and owns 13 shiny rings; 11 as a coach and 2 as a player.

        Bill Russell is credited with 11 championships and has 11 shiny rings; 11 as a player, ZERO as a coach. Even though he coached the Celtics for three seasons and won two championships as a coach. But no… you really made a great point there.

      • duhwighthoward - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:44 PM

        @probasketballpundit, BILL RUSSELL WON 9 RINGS AS A PLAYER, 2 AS A PLAYER-COACH.

        9 + 2 = 11



    • pharohislife - Aug 22, 2014 at 6:05 AM

      I gotta know what people think on this topic. If KG and Tim Duncan switched teams from the beginning of there Careers. Do you believe that KG could have won up to 4 Championships. I mean replacing KG with Duncan on THOSE Spurs teams. People forget In the early 2000’s KG was equally as good as Duncan if not better due to his athleticism. A Top 3 Player in the League. Best 2-Way Player in the League.

      • pharohislife - Aug 22, 2014 at 6:09 AM

        My point being, give him Duncan’s Teams and he may be the Best Power Forward of All-Time. At least 2nd All-Time, but he already is in my eyes.

      • spursareold - Aug 22, 2014 at 10:10 AM

        No. KG, for all of his bluster, is mentally weak. He NEVER could have take the 2003 Spurs to the ch’ip. The second best player on that team was Stephen m’f’ing Jackson.

      • pharohislife - Aug 22, 2014 at 10:40 AM

        So where does KG Rank Among The All-Time Power-Forwards

      • duhwighthoward - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:57 PM




      • pharohislife - Aug 22, 2014 at 2:08 PM

        KG 7th on the All-Time PF List? Stop it. He’s Top 5 on any and every list. And the fact that you mentioned Pau Gasol in the same breath as KG Is pretty absurd to me. Gasol had about 4 good years, KG had about 14. Also you mentioned Dirk, which isnt bad, but still KG was the better overall player. A 2-way Player.

      • billtetley53 - Aug 22, 2014 at 4:09 PM

        Thats cute, your PF list has 2 guys that played in the 70s, one of which(Moses) who played center for the most part in his career. Im sure you must have meant Karl Malone, if you didnt, youre not looking real smart for leaving him off.

      • sportsfan18 - Aug 22, 2014 at 7:35 PM

        @ pharo

        KG IS a better player than Pau…

        but Pau never gets the respect he deserves. Again, I agree KG is better than Pau.

        but when you said Pau only had like 4 good seasons, you’re wrong.

        Pau has had 9 seasons with a win share of .150 or more.
        Now, KG has had 13 of those seasons. but again, I agree KG is better.

        but Pau had a LOT more than just 4 good seasons.

        Pau had 10 consecutive yrs with a PER of over 20.0.
        KG had a stretch of 12 consecutive yrs with a PER of over 20.0

        yeah, KG is better than Pau, but Pau is a lot better than you’re giving him credit for.

        Pau had 3 consecutive seasons with a win share per 48 of over .200 and KG had 4 consecutive seasons with a win share per 48 of over .200

        Again, KG is better than Pau. I know that. But Pau has done so much better than folks think he has.

  3. nilla619 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:20 PM

    The way I look at it is Shaq in his prime with Lebron would win more titles then Kobe and Shaq

    • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:32 PM

      I KNOW that’s true because it has 4 thumbs down and 0 thumbs up…

      of course, MJ and 4 stiffs would take Shaq and Lebron and their minions…

    • blackman24 - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:49 PM

      And while you think they may win more rings, seeing that Lebron is considered a more all around player than Kobe, Shaq would avg 40 with him, and guess who still wins the Finals MVPs, that’s right it would be Shaq, and Lebron would get the same ridiculous he rode Shaq coattails to the titles like they do Kobe.

      • sportsfan18 - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:33 AM

        Nope, nope, nope…

        LBJ wouldn’t shoot 17% from 3 in a Finals like Kobe did.

        LBJ wouldn’t shoot .381% in a finals from the field like Kobe did.

        LBJ wouldn’t shoot .367% in a finals from the field like Kobe did.

        LBJ wouldn’t take more than TWICE as many field goal attempts as Shaq would if Shaq was shooting 60% from the field and LBJ was only shooting 43% from the field like Kobe did to Pau Gasol in the 2009 Finals… Kobe took 135 FG attempts at 43% to only 60 FG attempts for Pau at 60%

        LBJ is too smart of a player to keep shooting and missing 57% of his shots when he has a big hitting 60% of the shots he’s taking.

      • blackman24 - Aug 22, 2014 at 2:00 AM

        Obviously you missed the whole point of the post, but this is expected from the resident Kobe hater. Regardless of what Lebron would of shot percentage wise, if he was playing with Shaq and the way he plays unselfishly, Shaq would of put up even bigger numbers and still won those Final MVPs, your stats are irrelevant to the post.

      • muhangis - Aug 22, 2014 at 2:43 AM

        Obviously sportsfan18 slept under a rock in the ’11 Mavs-Heat Finals!

        “Hey ask LeBron for change for $1, and he’ll only give you 3 quarters”

      • pharohislife - Aug 22, 2014 at 5:53 AM

        Yea I do recall LeBron scoring 8 points in a Finals game and 0 in the 4th Quarter of the same game. I don’t think Kobe would do that, actually I don’t think ANY Hall of Famer would do that. Terrible.

        I also recall him being outscored by Jason Terry in all 4th Quarters of that series by like 40-50 points. Cmon Saahn.

  4. antistratfordian - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:25 PM

    I can’t argue with him saying Dr. J is the greatest. People these days don’t give Julius enough love, but he pioneered the modern style of thrilling, athletic play that made the NBA (and hence MJ, Kobe and LBJ) popular.

    • antistratfordian - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:34 PM

      Just to piggy back on that…

      When I was growing up it was still all about Dr. J. He was the man. Magic and Bird were the stars in the league I suppose, but as far as “greats” it was all about Dr. J and Wilt, as far as I can remember. I always heard a lot about Wilt the Stilt. Oscar was always like a mystery to me as a kid – an enigma – you’d hear about this guy who once averaged a triple-double, which seemed impossible, and in the days before the internet you didn’t have quick access to information or video clips so you could only really imagine him. He is still kind of perplexing even to this day though.

      • ProBasketballPundit - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:57 PM

        antistrat, you should know that Oscar Robertson’s first five years in the NBA come out to a triple double average. BUT! I actually went through the trouble of adjusting LeBron’s stats to match the pace of Oscar’s Cincinnati Royals and LeBron would also be averaging a triple double except with a bunch more points.

        So while Oscar is definitely a legend of the game, his stats were super inflated.

      • antistratfordian - Aug 21, 2014 at 8:08 PM

        I’m aware of that now, of course. But at the time I didn’t know anything about pace and possessions per game and that sort of thing. I was just a kid listening to older people talk about the legends.

        But I always had Oscar highly rated since then. He was kind of like the Sugar Ray Robinson of basketball to me.

      • dinofrank60 - Aug 22, 2014 at 1:56 PM

        Somebody should tell Russell, West, Baylor, Kareem and others how much Oscar’s stats were inflated. I think they would enjoy hearing that since they only played against/with him.

        And the game is vastly superior now, because the players played in a faster paced, more physical style back then. We know that doesn’t go together and that the coaches weren’t smart enough to control the action like they do now.

      • antistratfordian - Aug 23, 2014 at 1:10 AM

        Even if they were inflated, he was still the only guy to do it and everyone else was trying. So that counts for something.

      • dinofrank60 - Aug 23, 2014 at 10:17 AM

        I think Oscar just played; they didn’t worry about triple doubles or point guards or small forwards. Maybe this game is simpler than what is thought. After all, it is a fun game to play.

    • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:34 PM

      pioneering something doesn’t automatically make on the greatest of all time…

      Dr. J IS great, an all time great but he doesn’t appear in the majority of all time top ten lists even.

      it’s a stretch when one isn’t routinely considered to be in the top ten to actually be called out as the greatest of all time

      now I was in high school from 81 to 85 and I loved watching the early 80’s Sixers with Bobby Jones, Cheeks, the Doctor and Moses Malone…

      • antistratfordian - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:45 PM

        Well it’s his opinion, spf18, and he’s entitled to it. I wouldn’t argue much with him about it. Dr. J had an enormous impact on basketball – as far as how the game is played his impact was bigger than MJ’s.

        Hey, I think I’m going to call you “sunblock” from now on. SPF 18.

      • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:50 PM

        his opinions change with the wind…

        shaq is only about entertainment

        he could ball though…

        and he IS entertaining.

        and you’re right about Doc and what he did for the game.

        I’m NOT talking about that though.

        I’m only talking about ON the court, results. Doc was great but it isn’t just me, just google top ten all time in the nba and you’ll have to look far and wide to find a top ten list that includes Doc in it…

        i haven’t found one yet actually. again, I liked Doc, respected his game and loved watching him.

        he’s just not the GOAT though, and just as Shaq is entitled to his opinion, so am I sir.

        and you and the rest of the goobers on here

      • antistratfordian - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:59 PM

        “I’m only talking about ON the court, results.”

        Yeah, and what you’re seeing on the court today are the results.

      • hickoryhigh - Aug 22, 2014 at 10:20 AM

        sportsfan, take a trip to Rucker Park and ask some of the old timers who the greatest of all time is. I bet you’ll hear The Doctor a lot!

      • dinofrank60 - Aug 22, 2014 at 2:01 PM

        If I think that Doc was the greatest, why do I need to have lists validate that claim? It is my opinion, after all.

      • billtetley53 - Aug 22, 2014 at 4:21 PM

        Hickory, I bet you hear Earl “The Goat” Manigault and Pee Wee Kirkland just as much as The Good Doctor.

    • dinofrank60 - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:29 PM

      You are so right.
      The NBA should have made sure Erving stayed with the Nets despite what the Knicks might have said. You would have saw the true Julius instead of him being paired with George McGinnis in Philly. That wasn’t good for both Doc and George.
      McGinnis should have been one of the greats; he could do anything Karl Malone could do.

      • billtetley53 - Aug 22, 2014 at 9:55 AM

        Good point. Big George was a beast for the Pacers in the ABA. Smoking like a chimney really hampered his later career.

    • spursareold - Aug 22, 2014 at 10:18 AM

      Actually, Connie Hawkins was the pioneer “above the rim” player in the ABA/NBA.

      • billtetley53 - Aug 22, 2014 at 4:13 PM

        Actually, no he wasnt. He had a few good years in the ABA and then his knees were shot. His younger years he was banned from the NBA for point shaving in college. His 2 years were spent on thePittsburgh Condors and the Minneapolis ABA team, after that, his above the rim days were over. Once he made it to the NBA, his best days were way behind him.

      • billtetley53 - Aug 22, 2014 at 4:17 PM

        First 2 years*

      • antistratfordian - Aug 23, 2014 at 1:07 AM

        A pioneer. Dr. J was the pioneer.

  5. vikesdynasty - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:30 PM

    Dr J…..LMAO

  6. larams2016 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:33 PM

    The Big Diplomat!

  7. 88heatnation - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:52 PM

    Hate to agree but Shaq is right. He use to come to our games in Clemson and spoke the importance of teamwork and praised Lebron, said he’s a Coach’s dream player.

    • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:56 PM

      Not if Kobe was the coach…

      LBJ DNPCD…

  8. JMClarkent - Aug 21, 2014 at 6:59 PM

    How can you talk about the GOAT with no mention of the Mamba?

    …Brian Scalabrine.

    • sportsfan18 - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:02 PM

      not talking about Goat milk is why…

  9. billtetley53 - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:12 PM

    Check out his stats ; 24.2ppg 8.5rpg 4.2apg 2 steals a game 1.7 blocks

    16 time all star,4 time MVP. Over 30,000 points.

    But nah, he shouldnt be in consideration for the goat….,ugh.

    People tend to forget how great he was in the ABA. Not a lot of film out there for that, but there are books. Some of you should read a little bit. Hes not the goat, but hes definitely top ten.

  10. mackcarrington - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:15 PM

    Just to throw in my two cents:
    Would anyone ask Kobe or Shaq to coach?
    What Russell didn’t have in physical ability, he more than made up for in his mental, thinking approach to the game.

    • socalgal64 - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:22 PM

      No. They would both make terrible coaches. Kobe’s already said he would be awful and has no interest in it. I don’t think Shaq has the requisite discipline to be a coach. How he was as a player is indicative of that.

    • bkbell3 - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:29 PM

      Playing on a loaded team sure helped russell. And as far as coaching i doubt that russell has more basketball IQ than mj lbj or magic but magic lasted, what, 20 games as a coach and no one is asking mj to coach. I doubt anyone has the mental approach to the game as mj and koby. Russell also shot 45% from the field as a 6’11” center.

      • mackcarrington - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:43 PM

        Kobe’s mental approach to the game is more single-mindedly focused on himself. Russell’s shooting % is irrelevant to this conversation. He never outshot, out jumped, or out rebounded against Wilt head up, but he used what skills he had to give his team an advantage. He didn’t have to be his teams leading scorer and he knew that wasn’t his game.

      • spursareold - Aug 22, 2014 at 10:26 AM

        The Celtics weren’t “loaded” until Russ got there. Almost the exact same team had fallen short a couple of times. They trade 6 time All Star EdMcCauley, Big Bill shows up, and they win 8 in a row. The Celtics didn’t make it easier for Russ, he made it easier for them.

  11. wingedeelfingerl1ng - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:45 PM

    Shaq himself should/orter be in the discussion of GOAT. I’ll wager you – both in their primes – Shaq woulda destroyed Russell one-on-one. He was a 7 ft specimen that excelled both on off & def. I even think Shaq could take Wilt head-on – Wilt somehow strikes me as clumsier than Shaq. They both had equal power but Shaq pocessed mor finesse. He’d slither past the Big Dipper inasmuch as a big man can slither. The Stilt 2 slow 4 The Big Policeman.

  12. stoptrippn - Aug 21, 2014 at 7:49 PM

    BS on dr. J. He was great but he could not take over a game and make the other players around him better. That goes to MJ.

  13. billtetley53 - Aug 21, 2014 at 8:03 PM

    Wing. Go read up on Wilt. He was a GREAT, not good, great athlete. Just go read, you obviously have no frame of reference regarding him or Russ, Rus was the greatest defensive center the game has ever seen.

    Stop. Again, you neglect to take into account his ABA days. He was a force.

    His 76ers team was him, Cheeks, Caldwell Jones,Dawkins, Mix, Bobby Jones, Doug Collins, World Free etc. Not a powerhouse line up, yet they were battling the Celtics year in and year out in the ECF. It wasnt until they got Moses and Andrew Toney that they got over the hump. Doc did make his teammates much better, youre very wrong on that. Doc was 33 when they got that title.

    • turkbox420 - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:38 AM

      I wish they would have beaten `77 Portland and `80 LA . If Doc had 3 rings he would be in discussion for best of all time in every conversation. Especially with his amazing ABA career, that should factor some how how in his success since the ABA style heavily influenced the way 1980 NBA and beyond would be.
      If MJ, Bird, Shaq, Magic all say DR. J is one of the best, I believe them. Kareem does not get the credit he deserves either. I would take a 35 year old Kareem over any active Center in the league .

  14. ProBasketballPundit - Aug 21, 2014 at 8:06 PM

    This debate is pretty even at the moment, but the second LeBron gets his third Bill Russell MVP trophy I think he’s the clear choice.

    • duhwighthoward - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:42 AM


      • ProBasketballPundit - Aug 22, 2014 at 10:59 AM

        Is it currently called the “Kobe Bean Bryant Finals MVP Award”? Because I don’t get your point.

      • duhwighthoward - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:58 PM



  15. patfic5 - Aug 21, 2014 at 8:55 PM

    Lebron over Kobe everyday. Hell, I’d take unclutch 2010 Bron over Kobe.

  16. stan8888 - Aug 21, 2014 at 10:09 PM

    did you know that when Shaq was injured and Kobe played during the three peat, the Lakers had a regular season record of 12-11 (.5217%). When Kobe was injured and Shaq played, the lakers were 25-7 (.735%).

    Did you know the stats for the 2000 finals?

    Shaq: 38.0ppg 16.7rpg 2.3apg 2.67bpg 61.1fg%
    Kobe: 15.6ppg 4.6rpg 4.2apg 1.40bpg 36.1fg%

    Does it sound like kobe “led” them to the victory parade? Kobe was not even robin in that series. He was a role player. How can Kobe’s 5 championships even compare Shaq’s 4 when he was second option that really didn’t deliver much at 36% shooting even though the double teams and triple teams focused on shaq ONLY. Go and re-watch the series on youtube if you don’t believe me.

    • blackman24 - Aug 21, 2014 at 11:10 PM

      I’ts funny that the Kobe haters always pull up his 1st Finals series and go strictly off that to claim he was a sidekick, but this idiot takes it even further and says he was a role player..SMH!!! Since you wanna pull up stats, now how about you pull up the stats between the 2 during the 2nd and 3rd titles and see how they on par with each other.

      These are their numbers during their 5 year run of 3 titles and 4 finals appearances.
      26.2 ppg 6 reb 5.3 ast 1.7 stls regular season,
      26.0 ppg 5.4 reb 5.1 ast 1.5 stls playoffs

      27 ppg 12 reb and 3 ast 2.6 blks regular season
      27 ppg 14 reb and 3 ast 2.8 blks playoffs

      Please tell me how he was a role player..

      • blackman24 - Aug 21, 2014 at 11:15 PM

        You won’t respond, but if you do it will be the same garbage Shaq was the Finals MVP all 3 of those titles. Let me ask you, if any great wing player played with Shaq during his prime and he went up against the likes of Smits, Perkins, MCcollugh, Martin, Dikembe, Geiger and put up 36/15, do you honestly think they would win the Finals MVP,

      • blackman24 - Aug 21, 2014 at 11:20 PM

        It’s a shame that 1 of the greatest to ever play the game gets disrespected since he played with Shaq, but yet Magic is considered the GOAT in some people’s eyes, yet he didn’t win a ring without Kareem and the Big O who only won 1 ring, and guess who he won that with, oh yeah Kareem as well.

  17. onlyavoice - Aug 21, 2014 at 11:10 PM

    I think Shaq just called Kobe a ball hog.

  18. eagles512 - Aug 21, 2014 at 11:44 PM

    Dr J is my favorite player ever but he’s not in the top 10. But someone said Pippen is his equal? Not even close.

  19. mistermaxxx08 - Aug 21, 2014 at 11:44 PM

    lebron easily out of him and kobe IMO. DR J deserves some serious consideration. Shaq is one of the greatest way up their believe that.

  20. carp0056 - Aug 22, 2014 at 12:05 AM

    Larry Bird

  21. soopreme - Aug 22, 2014 at 11:47 AM

    Any who would choose Kobe over Lebron if they were building a team and they had to choose between the two would be out of their minds!!

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