Comments on: Comparing markets, attendance and ownership in Sacramento and Seattle

By: mycrazyexperiences

mycrazyexperiences — Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:15:15 +0000

Comparing markets? This article should of focused more on the potential of broadcasting rights as this is where the NBA is heading. We have seen TimeWarnerCable pay $3 Billion for the exclusive right to broadcast Lakers games on their network for the next 20 years and while I have a hard time seeing Seattle land a Billion dollar deal with a TimeWarnerCable type, I see them getting more money for those rights than Sacramento. What surprised me was when I heard that the Kings sold their highest priced piece of sponsorship inventory, naming rights, to an employee owned Mattress retailer at a very low cost, less than $1 million per year. To put it in perspective, the Seattle Sounders (MLS) sold their jersey rights, Sounders highest priced inventory, to one of Microsoft’s brands XBOX 360 LIVE for $5 million per year for 4 years.

What Sacramento does have in its corner is its loyal fan base. 19 sellout season in the past 20 something years. That’s just amazing. Unfortunately, ticket sales are a small fraction of the revenue vs TV rights & Sponsorship sales.

I feel bad for the Kings fans because I don’t see this decision being in Sacramento’s favor. I felt the league should have awarded Oklahoma City with the Hornets post Hurricane Katrina and in return, allowing the city of New Orleans to host the All Star game for the next 5 years. If the NBA would have made that decision, the Sonics, with 40 years of history in Seattle, would have never left and Sacramento would be keeping their team…for now.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 00:29:23 +0000

I think saying the Maloofs don’t “care” isn’t correct or they would have sold to Burkle, making life easier. They just don’t have the leverage to say no if the league rejects team relocation.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 00:27:32 +0000

But the same pocket thing is true in Seattle. If you use the federal 2011 county-wide numbers for Sacramento and King counties, Seattle is up like $18K a household. There are a lot of things Sac can argue, but area personal income isn’t a good one.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:27:38 +0000

But other Fortune 500 companies do, Sac has none. There is a “yea, but” for every argument you make, every one Seattle makes. But you can’t seem to see it that way.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:26:16 +0000

I know a lot of people in Sacramento, don’t tell me they are not Giants/Raiders fans. There are a lot. And they drive in to go to games and they spend money there.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:25:06 +0000

Arenagate2013, you responded to pretty much every comment on this post. I think he doth protest too much.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:19:15 +0000

You think owner want to tie their hands on who they can sell to? If Sac wins the league will approve the sale but scuttle the relocation, which will effectively kill the sale without voting the sale itself down.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:17:35 +0000

At the start of this process it looked a lot like that from a national perspective because there was no alternative together yet from Sacramento.

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:16:28 +0000

Aldridge on Monday did a very balanced story at NBA.com, for the record. As he said, whatever point either side makes the other side has a legitimate “yea, but” response.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:54:14 +0000

dans761: So will you say the same about David Aldridge and Adrian Wojnarowski, who are clearly regurgitating what Seattle’s camp is saying?

Do not forget that Aldridge said the Kings to Seattle has a clear path (it is not as Sacramento is still in it) and it is up to the Maloofs to decide who to sell the Kings to (it is not as David Stern said that is up to the BOG) and Wojnarowski said the Kings to Seattle was at a first and goal at the one yard line (sounds like a fumble to me).

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:42:32 +0000

midwestwarrior: Why should Sacramento change its loyalty to a Bay Area team when they had one to call their very own for 28 years?

That is like asking Sonics fans to cheer for the Trailblazers. Seattle deserves an NBA team, but not the Kings. The Kings belong to Sacramento. An expansion team would be the best thing to do for Seattle. Also, Seattle should have never lost its Sonics.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:38:42 +0000

The only people who have a checkered past are the Maloofs, who did not negotiate in good faith with Sacramento. It sounds like they did not want to sell the team to a Sacramento group out of spite. Could it be because they were denied a relocation to Anaheim therefore losing their Palms Casino? Remember the Maloofs knew the NBA would not allow a third team into the Los Angeles market where Anaheim is a part of, like it or not. That was early May 2011. By mid June 2011, the Maloofs lost controlling interest in the Palms Casino. Yup, sounds out of spite to me.

Mastrov and Burkle are a part of the ownership group.

“Johnson said Burkle would be the driving force behind the arena plan, while Mastrov would lead the charge on the bid for the Kings. Sources said both men would contribute financially to both the arena and the team acquisition.”

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:32:15 +0000

So you did not read the article?

So you are saying that both Adrian Wojnarowski and David Aldridge are not biased in their reports?

Truth is both Wojnarowski and Aldridge reported the Kings to Seattle was a done deal and we can all clearly see it is not and Sacramento is very much alive in this story.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:29:17 +0000

jattsoorma: Anyone can state their opinions, but it all comes down to cold hard facts.

I recall David Aldridge saying Seattle had a clear path to getting the Kings and Adrian Wojnarowski saying it was first and goal at the one yard line. Since then they have backpedaled and the momentum is clearly on the side of Sacramento.

In other words, both Aldridge and Wojnarowski were wrong in their reporting to get their stories out first and it is clear as day their sources are inside the Seattle camp.

However, nothing is set in stone for the Kings to remain or move. That will be decided very soon.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:22:33 +0000

seahonky: There is a binding agreement between the Hansen-Ballmer group and Maloofs, but the Kings have not been officially sold. That is up to the NBA to decide.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:20:43 +0000

spideysdog: Why would it matter who a team ownership group sells to as long as they get their money? Money from Seattle is the same from Sacramento, right? Money is money isn’t it?

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:59:52 +0000

rgod8855: So Stockton and Modesto identify with the Warriors more than the Kings? More are Warriors fans than Kings fans? Was it like that when the Kings first moved to Sacramento? Was it like that when the Kings were known as the “Greatest Show on Court” and the Warriors were lottery bound?

Sacramento is not an hour’s drive to Oakland. State the facts. Try approximately 80 miles or 90 minutes, give or take depending on where you’re coming from and traffic.

Seattle’s teams are more supported as you said because the nearest NBA team to them is Portland is approximately 174 miles ONE WAY or about 2 hours and 45 minutes. Where are the closest MLB and NFL teams to Seattle?

Seattle to Portland s twice the trip length of Sacramento to Oakland.

The Kings had sold out 20 of 23 seasons until they stopped making the playoffs as the Maloofs began to cut salary and got virtually nothing in return to make the team talent any better.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2013/1/23/3904630/video-illustrates-fan-support-by-way-of-attendance-sacramento-vs

Plus the Maloofs killed Measures Q&R without supporting it and had their Carl’s Jr. commercial with their $6,000 burger combo meal.

Your arguments are weak.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:44:54 +0000

tommychappy0722: It was horrible with what happened to Seattle but don’t blame NBA Commissioner David Stern. Don’t blame Clay Bennett. Blame Howard Schultz. He sold the team to an outsider. The writing was on the wall when that happened and the fact there was no political will or public support for a public-private partnership, Seattle sealed its fate. Where was Steve Ballmer when this happened? Why did he allow this to happen? Why didn’t he attempt to buy the Sonics from Schultz?

Sacramento has shown the political will and has public support for a public-private partnership. As a matter of fact a year ago the city of Sacramento, the NBA, AEG and the Maloofs had an agreement to a non-binding term sheet agreement. Why did the Maloofs back out? Because they’re broke. Case in point is they couldn’t get afford a free arena deal in Virginia Beach and used that as a smoke screen to negotiate with the Hansen-Ballmer group and never negotiated in good faith with Sacramento.

One good thing about Seattle is they won’t have to deal with the Maloofs, who were much worse than Schultz.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:34:57 +0000

itsfinn: You’re incorrect. The Kings did make money when it was in the playoffs. For example, in 2002 the Kings made a profit of nearly $4 million.

In 2004, the Kings “posted a $4 million profit for this fiscal year.” See the link below. I could go on and on but next time use some facts.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:55:28 +0000

sw19womble: You’re that concerned over a picture? A picture is worth a thousand words but in this case it is the words in the article that matters. Do not concern yourself with the steak sauce and instead worry about the steak.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:49:54 +0000

dannymac17: Yet you paid enough attention to co-sign a post that you never read? That makes a lot of sense, so why bother reading in the first place? I still enjoy reading articles from Adrian Wojnarowski and David Aldridge.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:40:57 +0000

drake2042: Don’t forget the Raiders, Warriors and Sharks to name a few but here is one major difference. All of those teams we have listed are Bay Area based teams in Oakland, San Francisco and San Jose. None of them are Sacramento based teams. We are talking about 80 miles one way or 160 miles round trip, if not more depending on where you are coming from and going to.

Sacramento has just the Kings as their professional sports team. The River Cats are their minor league team.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:10:56 +0000

badintent: Since you said Seattle is “all about big business $$$$$$$,” where were the local investors who could have stepped in to save the Sonics when Howard Schultz had to sell the team to someone outside of the city and state in Clay Bennett? Are they currently making pledges to show their support? If they are I certainly have not heard about it. Maybe that is what Chris Hansen will do next as he takes another page out of Sacramento’s playbook.

Since you mentioned Meg Ryan, hopefully we won’t hear “Sonicsless in Seattle” for too much longer. Seattle deserves a team, but an expansion team. Don’t be a hypocrite.

By: arenagate2013

arenagate2013 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:51:47 +0000

The quote on Amazon and Microsoft was from Seattle writer Art Thiel. Now with that out of the way, is he correct or wrong on what he said?

Theil said, “They (Amazon and Microsoft) don’t buy the suites, they don’t do the sponsorships at least at the same degree as you find elsewhere with Fortune 500 companies.”

So I ask you, is Thiel correct or incorrect?

I will also ask you this, why didn’t Steve Ballmer step up when the Sonics were sold to Clay Bennett? Howard Schultz could have easily sold it to Ballmer and other local investors to keep the team in Seattle. Once it was sold to Bennett, an out of town businessman, the writing was on the wall. Seattle had a chance to save its Sonics, but the political will was not there after Seattle gave LARGE PUBLIC SUBSIDIES to stadiums for the Seahawks and Mariners.

By: bradger

bradger — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 06:16:45 +0000

Are you serious? I was never a Warriors fan back in the 1970s. The Warriors are hated in Sacramento second only to the Lakers.

I’m not sure where you got 70 miles from. From my house a few miles north of Sac, it’s 105 miles for me. And with the usual horrible traffic, that’s about 2.5 hours away most days.

I could just as easily ask Seattle why they don’t just become Blazer fans and drive to Portland? I’m sure every reason why you wouldn’t, goes for us as well.

By: bradger

bradger — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 06:10:18 +0000

Burkle does have an investment in the team as well. They are just downplaying the role because the Maloofs made statements about never selling to Burkle after he had the audacity to want to buy the team when the Maloofs tried to move to Anaheim. It’s a face saving move.

Just like during KJ’s recent speech he had everyone stand up and give the Maloofs a hand for their time spent in Sacramento. Nobody liked it, but we give them polite applause.

By: bradger

bradger — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 06:04:31 +0000

I thought it was wrong that Seattle lost their Sonics. But it is also wrong to assume that Sacramento should lose their team to make up for that wrong doing. Sacramento has supported their team and have done everything the NBA has required for a new arena.

The NBA owes Seattle an expansion team since they now have an arena in the works. But Sacramento doesn’t deserve to have their team ripped away to make good in Seattle.

By: bradger

bradger — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 05:56:00 +0000

Well you cherry picked two cities in the market that are lower on median income in the mid $40k. But closer to Sacramento is Pocket area, River Park, Land Park, Roseville, Rocklin, Granite Bay, Folsom, El Dorado Hills. These areas add up to about 300,000 people within 5-20 miles of downtown proper. And better yet, the median income average ranges from $55k to $73k with Granite Bay and it’s 22,000 residents the highest averaging $101k.

Can you take a guess where a vast majority of Kings season ticket holders? Look at the names I listed above and you probably got it covered. Although I have met a few Stockton residents who were proud to be season ticket holders.

Also while the closer you get to the bay area, yes it does change. 30 miles seems to be sort of stretch on the claim as I know many fans further out than that. We also have fans that make the trip down for games from 90 miles away in Chico and Reno.

By: bradger

bradger — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 05:35:17 +0000

I don’t believe this is true. Most of the last 14 years the Kings turned a profit. You probably weren’t aware, but from 2000 to 2007 the Kings ticket prices were in the top 5 highest in the NBA. They also were profitable despite having an arena that had very little of the revenue generating opportunities that modern arenas have.

They only started losing money badly when talk of moving the team became commonplace in the last few years. Don’t confuse the Maloofs other failing business with the Kings profitability. They kept the team because it was the one that made them money. The 100+ million lines of credit arranged by the NBA they took were diverted to prop up their deep in debt casino. They sold off the liquor business for this reason as well.

By: bradger

bradger — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 05:21:50 +0000

Actually the Kings do own the market. While it’s true that you can watch A’s, Giants, 49ers and Raiders, they all fall in line behind the Kings. You can find pretty steady Kings talk from October to late June even if they aren’t in the playoffs. No other sport does that in the market. The NBA does own this market without a doubt.
What really matters is where the fans spend their money and where the business spend their advertising dollars. Local business is not going to spend advertising budget in another city a few hours away if they have no presence there. And there are regional sponsors that cover most of NorCal like Sleep Train for example. So there is local and regional business support.

No argument that Seattle has the larger corporate base. But I don’t think the bay area teams diminish Sacramento like you think.