Comments on: Seven players who need to answer doubters, have big years

By: tcclark

tcclark — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:14:04 +0000

Well that’s just not true. A guy who averages almost 2 blocks a game and has the same defensive rating as “defensive specialist” Kendrick Perkins plays pretty good D. He also averaged 2.2 assists a game which is about the same as Greg Monroe who’s considered by many as a great passer.

If he could be shut down so easily he would not be as consistent as he is. He was the only option for a while in Minnesota and put up big numbers (22+, 11+ kind of numbers) He’s dones the same stuff for the past 6 years and hasn’t really seen much of a drop in production. He consistently has high PERs (4 seasons over 20 and one at 19 in the past 5 years) and manages to shoot around 50% every season. Guys who can be shut down would be shut down by now.

By: tcclark

tcclark — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:01:45 +0000

I’ll give you Chandler. I think they’re really tight though because i think Jefferson’s offense is about as good as Chandler’s Defense and Jefferson’s defense is about as good as Chandler’s offense. I think Bogut has worked hard to improve, especially on defense, but considering he can’t stay healthy and is often inconsistent I think it’s unfair to place him in the same category with a consistent, healthy big man like Jefferson. He’s also much better than Bargnani. He scores more than Bargnani does and Bargnani is only good at scoring. His career high in rebounds is 6 and only averaged a half a block per game last year despite truly being 7 feet tall.

I also have to disagree with Marc Gasol. He’s been really good the past couple of years and he does so many little things on the court that don’t show up in the box score, but Al Jefferson is a player who’s averaged 20+ points, 10+ rebounds and almost 2 blocks a game multiple times in a season, all while shooting 50% from the field. He was 2nd in scoring for NBA centers last season, 8th in rebounds, 8th in blocks, 11th in field goal percentage, and 1st in turnovers among players that played at least 25 minutes per game. He also had an assist to turnover ration over 2 which is higher than any other center. And that all happened in a relatively down year for him. He hasn’t gotten to the line as much since joining Utah, but he was still 12th among centers in Free Throws made and was second in percentage shooting 77% from the stripe. Gasol has been very good, but statistically hasn’t been as good as Jefferson. Even when looking at advanced statistics Jefferson looks to be ahead. Jefferson had a PER 4 points higher than Gasol last season, had higher rebounding percentages across the board, had a turnover percentage at 5.2 compared to Gasol’s 12.1, and had higher offensive ratings. Gasol had a higher TS%, as well as a higher assist percentage. His defense is clearly better with a higher defensive rating. Gasol gets a lot of respect in the NBA because of his brother and because he’s playing for the new up and coming team. He’s been good, but Jefferson has been playing at a higher level for much longer and has done it consistently. the numbers show it, but media outlets don’t

By: tcclark

tcclark — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 20:18:56 +0000

It’s not so much being in a small market, it’s playing for losing teams. I know Utah is good, but they get lost in the loaded Western Conference. He wasn’t much of a household name even when he was in Boston and he averaged 16 and 10 because they weren’t very good. It was the same thing with Tyson Chandler. People thought he was pretty good, but because he played for a crappy Chicago team, New Orleans, and Charlotte, no one really thought of him as a great center. It wasn’t until he played for Dallas and they won a championship that people began to give him respect. I think it was Kurt who wrote an article wondering how Dallas couldn’t get anything better than Tyson Chandler for Erik Dampier’s non-guaranteed contract. Than he wins a championship and people are going crazy trying to sign him. Players on winning teams look a lot better than players on losing teams. The truth is, Al Jefferson has been consistently good at his position throughout his career, but gets no credit because he teams are never that good.

By: reality1989

reality1989 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:44:54 +0000

I honestly think King did a tremendous job putting a competitive team on the floor, given the circumstances. I mean what game changers where really available? There are a million teams throughout the games history that at first glance critics felt had no shot, and were proven wrong. Brooklyn did not have the luxury of “let’s wait and see.” At the end of the day they have to put people in those seats come Nov. 1. If this was Oklahoma or Sacramento they could be patient even when opening a new venue. NOT in New York,where rebuild is a curse word. A couple of second round exits will put their feet on the ground and help to solidify their place within the tri state area. Penny pinching would have lost Williams and disaster was sure to ensue with the worst being having to open the Barclay’s Center with an expansion team. We have to let the season play out before you can say these were the wrong moves. It is all about progress. Also Roy Hibbert was considered just as soft as Lopez is considered. Then the kid strings together a few productive games, now all of a sudden he’s the future of bigs (though I don’t agree), my point being don’t write off Lopez after just 3 years as if he’s some 13 year journey man. He has a good 4-5 years till he even reaches his prime! Why not take a shot ? We all like to play GM in our heads but Billy King is the GM. And we may or may not agree with his decisions on personnel ,but whose to say what we would do would pan out? We don’t have crystal balls so we don’t know if these were the wrong moves as of yet.

By: borderline1988

borderline1988 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:50:26 +0000

Jefferson doesn’t play any defense whatsoever, and is not a very good passer. So when teams plan around him and double team him, he’s just not that good.

To me, real stars are ones who are good enough to be effective no matter what the other team plans. I don’t like Kobe, but even when you shut him down, he still can rebound, play good defense, and hit tough shots in the 4th. He’s still a difference maker all over the court. Same with Lebron. Iverson was the epitome of that..everyone knew the Sixers had nothing besides Iverson, but Iverson was still able to make plays, b/c he was that good.

Jefferson can be shut down by good defensive teams. He’s a great one on one post threat, but otherwise, not that good.
You’re right that he may still be worth max money (based on what other big men are getting), but he’s not a franchise player in the slightest.

By: somekat

somekat — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:33:40 +0000

I think he’d be in a competition with Chandler, Bogut, Bargnani, and a few other guys for the 4-9 spots. That’s not saying much, as the the C spot has obviously taken a hit the last 10 years or so. But 1-2 are clearly Howard/Bynum, and 3 is clearly (IMO), M.Gasol.

I think you can look at my Lopez comment above, I think a lot of it also it true with regards to Jefferon

By: somekat

somekat — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:27:44 +0000

Add to the obvious stuff the fact that he is switching positions to play the 3 primarily this year, and he may be a bigger question than anyone on here. But considering the position, and play time changes, he should have a bigger chance to up his game than anyone one the list.

Plus he’s not a FA after this year, so it’s not like he’s up for a payday.

If I was going to add a sixer, I’d say Holiday (unless he re-up’s this week), since he will be a RFA after the season, and reportedly wants a max deal (which I don’t think he’s proven he’s worth). As a sixers fan, I love his upside, and would hate to let him walk still being only 22 years old, but as a sixers fan, I also know how much giving a good player who isn’t a max deal player, a max deal, can cripple the franchise.

By: somekat

somekat — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:23:43 +0000

But you have to look at it long term. Do you want to be a good team, or a real contender? Can you be with Lopez? I don’t think so, you need a strong defender and shot changer in the middle to win the title unless you are stacked otherwise like Miami. But you can’t be stacked otherwise…AND give a max contract to your center. Letting him walk would of been horrible short term, but who knows long term? Will Bynum and Howard of both re-sign? If they do, would they of if they knew Brooklyn was there and could offere a max?
They are all hypotheticals, but from the outside, it just seems like they settled. I don’t think the question should be “should they of given Lopez a max”, because they had to if they wanted to keep him (like you said). The question should be “Could they keep Williams if they let Lopez walk?”. If they couldn’t have, it makes sense. You don’t want to completely blow up the team you just built, while moving to a new city. But if they could have, Lopez is not the type of player that makes the difference between a ring and none, so a max contract makes no sense to me. Long term, they’d of been better off saving that cap space, and trying to add another star to run with D-Will. Personally, I don’t think Lopez, or Joe Johnson fit the bill

By: somekat

somekat — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:16:33 +0000

No different than Thad Young in Philly, who has looked MUCH better at every point of his career (Green missing last year not withstanding)

I don’t think the money in Green’s deal is as big of a deal as the length. He may of got a 9 mil offer somewhere else, but it would of been a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd or something like that. No way would it been 4 years

By: somekat

somekat — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:14:50 +0000

Stuckey was never “great”. He may have been great compared to what you expected from him, but even when he was getting all the press, he was just a good player. He fell off last year, probably to about where people expected him to be. I’m not saying he won’t develope in to a better player, but he’s never been a top 5 player at his position. If you aren’t a top 3, you can’t call a guy “great”

By: albertmn

albertmn — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:11:07 +0000

Overall Defense? Draw a few more fouls?

I don’t get the “no respect” due to a small market thing. While a lot of fans may not know about him (or others in small markets), all of the teams know about everybody, and it don’t affect his deal. I think he deserves slightly under max, but won’t be surprised if some team throws money at him. The GMs and owners can’t help themselves. That’s why they needed the lockout last year.

By: passerby23

passerby23 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:23:51 +0000

His defense is not going to improve substantially after 9 years in the league. He is what he is. He’s big, strong, can score and rebound. That’s what you get. What might benefit him more than anything is WHO signs him. I think he’d look pretty good in New Orleans next to Anthony Davis swatting shots.

By: passerby23

passerby23 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:20:59 +0000

I’ve commented on here many times about how every Jeff Green article written by Kurt Helin includes a slight about how the Celtics overpaid for him. Here’s what annoys me about that:

a) That was his asking price. Are you going to let him walk for nothing? Have the Perkins trade amount to nothing? You have to give him what others are going to pay him or YOU get nothing.

b) The kid is still young and developing and a chance to get better. And you have to imagine he’ll only get better playing with that group where they don’t tolerate softness. The Celtics championship window is 1 or 2 years. They desperately need a scorer and athleticism to spell Pierce. So, I ask again, are you going to let that guy walk and quibble about overpaying him?

c) Your point about him being wrongly used in OKC is a valid one. Ok, but he’s not quick enough to guard 3′s, you say? First of all, we don’t really know that yet. Second of all, he’s looked good so far.

d) With small ball lineups being so prevalent now, Green might actually be a solid 4 at times going against other tweeners.

Bottom line is we’ll see if he delivers, but the Celtics paid him what they should have.

By: tcclark

tcclark — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:05:49 +0000

Al Jefferson’s one of the top 5 centers in the NBA. The guy gets no respect because he’s played in Minnesota and Utah for the majority of his career. He’ll get a max deal somewhere. If Brook Lopez can so will Al Jefferson. He doesn’t really have to do much. He’s been doing pretty much the same stuff his entire career. He’s gonna give you about 20 points 10 boards and 2 blocks a game. What does he have to prove?

By: tcclark

tcclark — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:55:52 +0000

Evan Turner?

By: reality1989

reality1989 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 02:19:37 +0000

I’m sorry but it drives me CRAZY when folks criticize Brooklyn for giving Brook Lopez a max deal. Portland & Charlotte were wating in the wings to offer max deals. So what do you want? Lowball Lopez and risk letting him walk and have no center at all??!! I mean c’mon!! He’s only 24 years old and already can put up 20 ppgs and tremendous upside. Talented 7 footers don’t grow on trees.

By: kdn4

kdn4 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 01:46:29 +0000

Thing about Jeff Green in Seattle/OKC was that he played power forward for most of his minutes. The game hadn’t evolved completely to the small ball lineup yet. So Green was forced to guard the Gasols, Randolphs, KGs, et al. It’s not fair that his defensive numbers are skewed because of this. He’s giving up a few inches and 50 or 60+ pounds to these guys.

By: numba1recx19

numba1recx19 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 01:17:17 +0000

Rodney Stuckey? This guy has been great and good. This is his year too people.

By: succulentnipples

succulentnipples — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:44:49 +0000

What?

By: evanem19

evanem19 — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:36:19 +0000

What about Nic Batum? He just signed a huge deal and it has yet to be seen if he is close to being worth ANY of that money. If he doesnt show signs by the All Star break, Rip City will turn on him.