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Gooden says guys who draw charges will pay flopping fines

Oct 5, 2012, 1:12 AM EDT

Paul George, Drew Gooden AP

Mark Cuban doesn’t love it. Neither does Blake Griffin. And Dirk Nowitzki.

While a lot of players have said they like the NBA’s new policy of fines for flops and hope that it starts to curtail the embellishment of contact in the NBA, not everyone does. There are concerns about enforcement, about unintended consequences, about a few things.

You can add Bucks forward Drew Gooden to the list above. He told Steve Aschburner of that he expect guys known for drawing charges are going to now draw fines. Fair or not.

“I think the guys who are going to be in trouble are the guys who lead the league in [taking legit] charges,” Gooden said after Milwaukee’s morning workout. “Ersan [Ilyasova] had a play yesterday where Ekpe [Udoh] was about to take a real hard power-dribble and he anticipated it. He stood on his heels, he took contact and it was like a no-call. Is that a warning? Is that a violation? That’s gonna be the question….

“I think we’re making too many rules each year,” Gooden said. “It seems like the last five years, it’s been a new rule every year. Technical fouls are up. Hand gestures to the ref. It’s taking away from the game.”

David Stern said today that the league will be “conservative” on enforcement. We’ll see what that means, and what the impacts turn out to be. Not all of them will be expected.

Another point from Gooden — shouldn’t the referees have consequences for the calls?

Gooden added: “The refs should be fined if they call a flop as an offensive foul, how ’bout that? If they get fooled, they should get fined or they should get a warning.”

  1. herkulease - Oct 5, 2012 at 1:21 AM

    did the NBAPA send out a talking points memo for guys to spit out ridiculous scenarios?

    The NBA is going to go after the most blatantly obvious ones first. Ones were guys go flailing without being touched or barely touched and act like they just got suck punched.

    like these.

  2. magicbucs - Oct 5, 2012 at 1:47 AM

    I agree with the ref thing. FIFA punishes/suspends refs who make bad calls or get fooled on dives.

  3. manchestermiracle - Oct 5, 2012 at 2:30 AM

    “The refs should be fined if they call a flop as an offensive foul, how ’bout that? If they get fooled, they should get fined or they should get a warning.” The whole idea is to get players to STOP trying to fool the refs. Why should the refs get fined just because they don’t catch every attempt at cheating? Gooden is trying to turn the issue on its head.

    “I think the guys who are going to be in trouble are the guys who lead the league in [taking legit] charges,” That makes no sense. By definition a “legit” charge is a foul called on the offensive player, not the guy taking the charge. Does Gooden know the difference between a charge and a block? If not, he’d be in good company since many refs appear to not be able to tell the difference either.

    Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought flopping was either A) Flailing backwards as though you’d been run into by the offensive player when you hadn’t or, B) Stumbling clumsily while dribble driving as though you’d been fouled by the defender when you hadn’t or, perhaps C) attempting to draw an over-the-back foul on a rebound attempt when, really, you were just out of position. Any others?

    Why are certain players against curtailing this theater of bad acting? And would this really be an issue if referees ignored the first (and maybe second) attempt by any particular player trying this and then after that called a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct? Wouldn’t the league be better served by simply telling players that refs were going to handle flopping differently (on the court) rather than opening this can of worms? Maybe that’s just too logical to get any traction with this league.

    • eventhorizon04 - Oct 5, 2012 at 6:11 AM

      …..It’s REALLY not complicated.

      It’s pretty obvious that this concern is due to the distrust of who will be determining whether or not a charge taken is a flop.

      The NBA players union is considering filing suit for that reason – in theory, there’s nothing wrong with fining floppers. IN PRACTICE, the system could be unfair – for example, what if Kobe/LeBron/Durant clearly flops in a nationally televised game, and meanwhile, a role player also flops that game.

      Would it surprise you, given how the NBA works, if the superstar didn’t get fined but the role player (who is earning a smaller salary) does get fined?
      If that happens, then this new system only penalizes non-superstars, so it’s unfair and biased.

      • eventhorizon04 - Oct 5, 2012 at 6:17 AM

        Just because a new rule “says” it’s going to do something good (in this case, penalizing flopping), doesn’t mean it will be fair and effective.

        I support the rule change, but I could easily see this turning into a system that penalizes role players disproportionately.

        A second potential problem is allegations of bias towards certain teams. Could you imagine the uproar if in a Lakers/Heat game, LeBron and Kobe both flop, but one is more obvious than the other, and only 1 gets fined by the league later?
        Bloggers/commentators would be talking for days about “David Stern showing favoritism to the Lakers (if LeBron is fined) or the Heat (if Kobe is fined).”

        This is a good goal, but it could turn out very badly.

      • manchestermiracle - Oct 5, 2012 at 9:20 AM

        It’s the NBA so I have no faith it won’t become complicated. Your point about uneven enforcement is well-taken, especially since the league already has a long track record of favoring stars over everyone else. This wouldn’t be much of an issue, except many refs can’t seem to tell the difference between a charge and a block. Were the defender’s feet set before the guy with the ball left the floor? Sheesh, how hard can that be? Yet they get it wrong quite often.

  4. nokoolaidcowboy - Oct 5, 2012 at 6:00 AM

    The guys doing the flop moves look ridiculous. Reminds me of the old time wrestlers with exaggerated movements, arms flailing up in the air, and the little yelp to get attention from the official.

    Manchester has a point, the refs are the ones letting themselves get hoodwinked into believing there is an infraction. If their wallets were on the line, then perhaps…

  5. passerby23 - Oct 5, 2012 at 11:54 AM

    If the fines are reserved for the Lebrons, Ginobilis, and Pierces of the league where obvious flopping is on display, it should be ok. I just hope the league doesn’t go crazy with it, which I expect they will, as certain teams/players will almost certainly begin complaining about disproportionate calls against them.

  6. raycharlesj - Oct 9, 2012 at 7:22 PM

    Fines for the players is only one part of the issue, teams and the refs also should be held accountable, fines for the players is saying the refs can’t do their jobs!!! so lets fine the players, and what player trying to make a team won’t flop when his coaches instruct him to, do you actually believe that coaches and trainers have not showed their defensively challenged players how to flop and sell calls???? The league needs to do much more then just fine certain players because with the leagues past history I can say without a doubt the fines will be issued unevenly based on player hierarchy and favortism, Reggie Miller with his leg kick, Jordon, Shaq, Rasheed, on and on they have called the game different for different players in the past.

  7. rocirius - Oct 11, 2012 at 8:03 PM


  8. rocirius - Oct 11, 2012 at 8:10 PM

    I would implement an additional penalty after review: a period of games where refs will be instructed to ignore any fouls against a player. Make it one-game minimum. Increase the number of games based on two factors: 1) repeat offenses and 2) egregiousness of the flop.

    In addition, flopping while already under the flopping penalty would result in a suspension for the number of games remaining on your penalty. This would not reset for the playoffs.

    That should stop the practice pretty quickly.

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