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Players vote to reject offer, decertify union. Season likely doomed.

Nov 14, 2011, 2:08 PM EDT

NBPA Meet To Discuss Current CBA Offer Getty Images

This is Armageddon. Nuclear winter is upon NBA fans.

The players got together in New York on Monday and not only voted to reject the league’s ultimatum offer, but voted to start the process to decertify the union.

“We’ve arrived at the conclusion that the collective bargaining process has completely broken down, and as a result in the last hour we have served a notice of disclaimer on (David) Stern and the NBA,” union director Billy Hunter said after the meeting. “We plan to disseminate that to all 30 teams. …

“The players are not ready to accept the ultimatum. They thought it was completely unfair on the part of the NBA ownership and management. … We have negotiated in good faith for two years, but the players have felt they have given enough.”

That step — a notice of disclaimer essentially says the union has no interest in representing the players in negotiations any longer and is abandoning that right — is the first step in anti-trust lawsuits that will be filed by players in the coming days. This is the step the NFL players’ union took and something agents have pushed the NBA union to do since July. The timing essentially blows up the negotiating process when there wasn’t a lot of time left to save the 2011-12 season.

The courts move slowly, but the union has reached its breaking point. It has gone to the one, big card it could play.

The reaction of the owners will be to hunker down, play hardball and try to force their entire wish list — such as salary rollbacks and a hard salary cap — on the players. The owners are not going to be scared by this at all.

Basically, Commissioner Stern is going to let his hardliners have the run of the place. Guys who were already willing to miss a season get to have their way.

Meanwhile, NBA fans lose. And so does the league.

“This is where it stops for us as a union,” said Derek Fisher, union president.

It might be where a lot of fans stop if a full season is lost. But the union is moving forward with these plans.

According to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo, several players have hired top anti-trust attorney David Boies. If the name is familiar, he was involved in the NFL’s anti-trust cases. Boies is the guy who had the anti-trust cases against Microsoft (and had some success there) and he was they guy representing Al Gore in Gore vs. Bush.

Technically, what this legal move does is turn the union into a “trade association” that works for the players but does not represent them in negotiating a CBA. Ultimately when a deal is struck, the union will reform.

Stern did not back down in an interview on ESPN, saying the players got bad advice on negotiating tactics if this was their move.

“It’s not going to work,” Stern said. “If they were going to do this, maybe they should have done this a long time ago so we had a chance to save the season. But they seem hell-bent on self-destruction.”

The league already has filed a lawsuit trying to block decertification of the union, and there have been arguments on the players’ efforts to have that case dismissed (but no ruling yet). That situation just becomes a lot more messy.

The players’ announcement came after about a four-hour meeting where about 50 players were looking at a take-it-or-leave-it offer from the league. That deal offered the players a 50/50 share of league revenue (once the owners took a healthy cut of expenses off the top) and a much more restrictive system of player movement than had been allowed before. The offer the players had wanted would have returned about $280 million a season (in last year’s dollars) to the owners, but the players wanted a less restrictive system. The owners had long said the two were not tied. It wanted both the money and the system changes.

Stern has said that if the players rejected this offer, the owners would counter with a “reset” offer that would give the players just 47 percent of basketball related income (down from 50 in the last offer and 57 percent last season) and a hard salary cap. The players’ meeting was well-attended and featured not only team representatives but also Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Russell Westbrook and many other star players. They all raised their hands in the press conference and said they supported this move.

Stern has warned the players against decertification and called it a “nuclear option.” The players just pushed the button.

It is a dark, dark day for the NBA.

156 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. ronjon77 - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:05 PM

    I’m 63 and can’t really run the floor but if you want to come over my house and watch me shoot – bring a friend. There will be no charge.

  2. larsonjs - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:05 PM

    I would love to see a massive reset not only of the NBA, but of all professional sports. There is too much money for what these distractions bring to society. Lower ticket prices, shorten seasons, pay players much less, and owners, run your teams like a business. The big problem in all of this is TV money. I don’t know what to do about that; but I don’t believe any basketball player is worth as much as the top players are paid.

    • pjmarn6 - Nov 15, 2011 at 6:49 AM

      I’ve been saying that about baseball for years and the commenters there bash me for telling them the truth. Why should Alex Rodriquez get $28,000,000 a season? He struck out at his last time at bat in the playoffs. I figured out that Rodriquez was paid $90,000 a swing!

      The most vulgar think I head in sports up to the time that the Sandusky thing broke.

    • blueintown - Nov 15, 2011 at 7:41 AM

      Then stop going to games, stop watching them on TV, stop buying their merchandise, and get one hundred million of your friends to do the same. This is your only recourse. I’m not trying to be a smart-arse, but this is how markets work.

      • pjmarn6 - Nov 15, 2011 at 7:13 PM

        blueintown, I haven’t watched a game of basketball, football, baseball or hockey in at least 20 years.. I don’t listen to the games on radio. I tried for 15 minutes and it was 10 minutes of non stop commercials. As long as people like yourself talk about the “WONDERFUL” games and watch, listen, go to and buy their crap they will pay astronomical sums to these jerks who thumb their noses at you. After 3-4 years a careful player can retire for life getting take home pay 3-4-5 times what you earn and do anything he wants due to your desire to watch these chumps.
        When Phil Rizzutto, retired from broadcasting and I moved abroad and they cut off listening to the games on the armed forces radio stations I stopped listening. That’s right baseball cut off the armed forces radio stations from free relaying of all baseball games to the members of the military! And that was how I was able to listen to the games over seas on short wave. That’s how bad those fuc*ing owners wanted to make money!

      • blueintown - Nov 15, 2011 at 8:32 PM

        pj — you haven’t watched a game in twenty years, yet you feel the need to comment on message boards dedicated to the sport? Interesting. You are also aware of not only A-Rod’s salary, but the results of his last at-bat, as well as all of his at-bats, which you would need to calculate his per swing costs. Since you don’t watch or listen to games, you must have to do some pretty extensive research..which also drives the markets (advertisements, website traffic). I wasn’t being insulting, and in theory I agree with the idea that $28 mil for a baseball player is ludicrous..but these contracts are all market driven. A market you and I are both contributing to just by visiting this website.

  3. wgward - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:06 PM

    I’m simply with the players.

    Just stay together on this move, as you are the “product.” It is you. And, “you” cannot be replaced.

    • b7p19 - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:14 PM

      Yep, nobody is paying $1,000 dollars for floor seats to watch the owners do whatever it is they do.

      • yournuts - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:23 PM

        Everybody is paying $1000 dollars floor seats to root for their teams. They could give a damn about an individual player who thinks he is bigger than the league. Don’t kid yourself b7p19.

      • b7p19 - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM

        We’re not talking about an “individual player who thinks he is bigger than the league.” We are talking about ALL the players. If the NBA truly agreed with you they would just get replacement players and not miss a beat. Would you buy tickets to see your team full of replacement players? The players are the league. The NBA is the best basketball league in the world because it has the best basketball players in the world. I would argue that you are the one trying to kid yourself Mr. Nuts.

      • yournuts - Nov 14, 2011 at 10:09 PM

        b7p19, are you trying to define the word owner? I always thought that the owner was the decision maker? The person who makes the decisions. If the players want they can play somewhere else or the owners will hire someone else to do their job. The players are W-4 wage earners. Their talent can be bought and sold. It is called a contract. The contract states how much the player will receive in compensation for their services.Th owners, since they own the rights to the league make up their own rules and regulations that they go by. The players want a partnership with the owners, realistically that will never happen because that is a form of socialism. You will never see socialism in America in your lifetime.
        #1. Players can go play anywhere they want. In the U.S. they still pay 3 times the salary they pay anywhere. You might want to try to play in China. They have a great love of Basketball. To me, it would more more sense to go back to work, products are always replaceable and refreshed. The manufacturer never changes.
        This situation can be resolved too, if the owners wanted to they could start over from scratch next year. They can have open tryouts for each team and whoever wanted to play can try out. If you don’t then don’t play. Start the league over and within 2 years all the players will be back at vastly reduced salaries. Guaranteed!

    • goforthanddie - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:52 PM

      Players are replaced yearly.

      • snotienose - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:16 PM

        Koby thinks he’s bigger then the league doesn’t he?

    • pjmarn6 - Nov 15, 2011 at 6:52 AM

      Have open camps and you will have a 100 players to take every spot on a team. Have a max salary of $200,000 and stand back. Thousands of players from every school and university and foreign country will be at the stadium for try outs. Jesus figuring that they only play half a year, that is 8 times what a normal person gets payed per year.

      That’s real money!! Jesus wouldn’t you like to be paid $200,000 for six month’s work?

    • rlquall - Nov 15, 2011 at 7:51 PM

      Can’t believe that MLB owners quit letting Armed Forces Radio have their games for free. It wasn’t that way when I was in, and nothing said “home” to me at the time quite like Atlanta Braves games, unless it was country music. (Don’t care all that much about either one now, though.) If they disallowed AFR network from getting their games then they aren’t just greedy but they are unpatriotic. And of course they are like the) 0.0001%!

  4. mrlucky11 - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:09 PM

    I know many of you are blaming the players for this. That’s because your mama raised you to be stupid. You should slap your mama.

    Let’s see if you can understand this.

    Let’s say that you and your family are very blessed and have a monthly income of $10,000 per month (this represents the owners. With me so far?)

    You are so happy with your success that you and yours go out and shop for a beautiful new home. You put a pencil to it and decide that you can afford a $5700 monthly house payment (this represents the cost of your labor – the NBA players salaries).

    For years you live the dream.

    Then all of a sudden, the wife goes on a shopping spree, you take a few trips to Cabo, and the kids need elective plastic surgery cause they don’t like themselves.

    All of a sudeden you’re not meeting your bills at the end of the month. What are your options?

    Certainly one of the options is NOT to go to your bank and tell them that the house payment needs to be reduced to $4700. What would your banker say?

    He’d say “You made the financial decision to obligate yourself in the midst of all your success. Either cut some of your other expenses (Lipo, Cabo, boob jobs) or sell your house because evidently you are incapable of managing your finances” (owners).

    Enough Said. I blame you personally Mr. Stern, and your rich good old by network of owners for not being worth a darn when it comes to managing a business. A business in which you have already made the rules.
    And please stop referring to these as negotiations. Negotiations require give and take from each side. The owners have done nothing but attemp to take.

    Stand strong NBA players. OCCUPY NBA begins today.

    • yournuts - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:20 PM

      This is such a stupid example!

      • mrlucky11 - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:20 PM

        I knew some would be too stupid to get it.

    • jdillydawg - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:02 PM

      Mr. Lucky, I had to slap your momma for that comment.

    • 06mustang - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:23 PM

      fool

    • johninpa - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:44 PM

      The problem with your example, and most of the arguments in favor of the players, is that you do not include the risk the owners take. The economy goes south, expenses go up, fans can’t buy tickets due to their high cost and owners lose money. Sure, large market owners make money, but how many small market owners don’t – and most are smaller markets.

      Then, the quality of the product is diminishing. I enjoy college ball, but NBA basketball isn’t a whole lot of fun to watch. Having said that, the finals were great. So all that momentum that could have been carried into this season is gone. Are the owners greedy? Probably. Are the players foolish? You bet. Sometimes when you are simply the employee, you have to take what you can get. 50% of the gross is sure a while lot more than 100% of nothing. And I suspect that most of us don’t feel too bad that the big names won’t be making tens of millions. Talk about greedy.

      It’s all okay, though. I really like football and hockey. I won’t miss basketball at all. Maybe the NHL will take advantage of the situation, market themselves, and steal some of the NBA’s fans.

      • rlquall - Nov 14, 2011 at 11:00 PM

        Here’s the real deal. There is only one neighborhood I can live in. The rules of this neighborhood require me to have a butler, maid, gardner, pool man, cook, dishwasher, security guard and eight other household employees, and outline how I should pay them. There are 30 houses in this neighborhood. My income is only a small fraction of what the richest people in the biggest houses amounts to. But due to the rules, I have to pay my household staff almost as much as they do. The only way I can get out from under this is to find someone to buy my house for what it is worth but he will be stuck under the same rules. My house suddenly doesn’t look like a good investment. My only other option is just to walk away from my house, let the other 29 owners knock it down and get my staff and my property and I get nothing. It was silly of me ever to have moved into this neighborhood; I can’t hang with the big boys and I didn’t figure it out in time. This is where the small market owners are today.

      • Kurt Helin - Nov 14, 2011 at 11:19 PM

        If you overpaid for your house and didn’t know the expenses going in, why should anyone feel sorry for you or help you out for buying in that neighborhood?

    • irish2u2 - Nov 14, 2011 at 6:12 PM

      This comparison might be an over simplification but it tells the tale. LOTS of owners made bad business decisions with their franchises and now they are looking for a player funded bailout. Some of the hardliners are actually good businessmen most of the time but serendipity has hardened their positions like Allen with Portland and losing both Greg Oden and Brandon Roy to injuries. The same is true of Kohl in Milwaukee who lost his best player Michael Redd to a knee injury. Other owners simply bought high, made some poor decisions (are you listening MJ?) and now they want relief courtesy of the NBAPA. What they really want is revenue sharing but the big market owners will empty their bank accounts for law firms first before forking over THEIR money.

    • pjmarn6 - Nov 15, 2011 at 7:15 PM

      Yea go and sit in the empty stadiums. That will show them!

  5. mario1357 - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:10 PM

    Curt,

    Please explain the difference between a hardliner and someone who is principled.

  6. gmen1987 - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:14 PM

    Yo NBA players. Now that college basketball is in seasons, not many people are going to miss your overpaid, whiny asses.

  7. ljp416jmp - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:24 PM

    Who cares? The NBA is boring anyway, all these spoiled rich guys paying a game for millions of dollars. The average fan can’t relate to the absurdity of the cost of going to a game. Screw the NBA. The only downside I see is it might impact college basketball if folks don’t have a professional outlet to move towards. On the other hand, maybe kids will stay and school and play for the full 4 years!

  8. blueintown - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:26 PM

    Now where will I go to get drunk on light beer and yell at millionaire giants?

  9. atlca - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:28 PM

    Maybe the players should just form their own league. Get one of the networks to back them on a revenue share and play in municipally owned arenas. I bet it would draw a decent TV audience especially with no NBA. Maybe the players should have taken the deal but the problem is we all go to see the players not the owners. So the players aren’t getting paid unless they go offshore to play but the owners are not getting revenue and seeing the value of the franchises decrease. I love watching stupid rich people make fools of themselves.

    • rlquall - Nov 14, 2011 at 11:06 PM

      I’m old enough to remember the NFLPA putting on its own games during a NFL strike during the 1980s. Think that they got Ted Turner to show them. Turned out that they were terrible — far worse than the “replacement player” games. Owners can field teams of NBADL & CBA players if this goes on long enough. If the PA isn’t a union anymore, then any “real” players who come back aren’t actually “scabs”, are they?

  10. Fred - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:29 PM

    I suspect 37 year old Derek Fisher is well aware that he won’t be able to make the money back if the season is lost. Say what you want about the players, but they’re standing on principle. You may not agree; you may think they’re selfish or stupid, but I full respect what they are doing. I think it’s hilarious that so many of those who routinely get screwed over by the reach and powerful — pretty much all of us — are condemning the players for taking a stand against a bunch of bullies who when they don’t get their own way resort to beating the rest of us over the head and taking what they want.

    • goforthanddie - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:53 PM

      I suspect 37 year old Derek Fisher has bank. A majority of those he represents will not earn in a career what he makes in a season. Hopefully his principles will be helping other folks pay their bills for the foreseeable future.

    • hoopsmccann - Nov 14, 2011 at 11:01 PM

      Because the players are NOT getting screwed by the owners! They are not anything like “us”. They have taken FULL advantage of the owners’ strong desire to WIN and put a winning product on the court for their fans and for their own egos. They have capitulated to the point that very average players make 5.5 million a year. Million! In a half of a year. The owners are as sick of $250 seats and $12 beers as we are. How much more money can you possibly want to play a boys game? They’d play for nothing if there wasn’t a league and would be working at McDonalds. They have no risk. They get paid their 5.5 million even if they get injured. Do you get your full salary for 3 or 4 years?

  11. rayburns - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:35 PM

    Part of the reason why teams may or may not (depending on who you believe) be making a profit lies in the fact that many NBA owners are like kids with lots of money in a candy store. Instead of buying the penny candy for a penny, they insist on buying it for a dime. And this raises the prices for all the other candy that’s for sale.

    Now the NBA wants a mechanism that will help stop the impulse shopping owners from paying too much to fringe players and driving the market upward.

    The players, on the other hand, have been riding on the gravy train for so long, that they’ve forgotten that all rides end and no one rides for free.

    • jdillydawg - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:08 PM

      Anyone know where Mark Cuban stands on this issue? Is he in solidarity with the owners or does he have a different take. On the surface, I like the way he runs the Mavs. I was hoping he’d buy the Dodgers…

      • irish2u2 - Nov 14, 2011 at 6:00 PM

        Mark Cuban was for the deal. He was not one of the owners who even was adamant about a 50-50 split though he did want a player reduction of the BRI. He is one of the big market owners so he makes money. It’s the small market guys who want a piece of the pie the fellers at the Big Table (NY, LA, Chicago, Miami, etc.) are eating. Cuban is in the pro basketball business because he likes the game. He’s also coming off an NBA championship so it could be surmised he was one of the owners who most wanted the players back on the court.

    • bballdragon - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:44 PM

      And you are right.

      I love the players. But some got the big heads and forgot, “gee, I use to scrape for money while in college or high school.
      The NBA need to take this time and revamp the NBA and bring in fresh new players that is willing to play ball instead of worrying about the next check to pay child support.

      If some of the current players want to sign onto the new NBA, then they are welcome to. I think we will get some really good games going because now we get to witness some raw talent fihting to be the number one player.

      Also watch how many current NBA players will be in line to sign up for the new NBA.

      Get the game going!!! Void their contracts and bring in new players.

  12. htimsr40 - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:46 PM

    The NBA doomed any chance of resolution when Stern took the position “accept our offer or we will make it worse”. THAT is not negotiating in good faith … that is an attempt to strong arm and intimidate the other party. Surely the owners didn’t believe that hyper-competitive players who are easily “disrespected” would give in to that type of threat. Had the NBA taken a semi-respectful approach to the the players, they probably could have had the contract they wanted.

    • southbeachtalent - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:55 PM

      100 percent correct, said that as soon as Stern made his ridiculous offer. Absolutely no negotiating going on here.

  13. goforthanddie - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:54 PM

    Did every NBA player get to vote on it? I find it hard to believe the league as a whole is dumb enough to vote it down.

    • southbeachtalent - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:58 PM

      I believe all players get to vote. Unless each team has a union rep and they vote on the teams behalf?

    • southbeachtalent - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:59 PM

      Dumb enough to vote it down.. Do you know all the details of the proposal? It sounds as if you do??

      • pjmarn6 - Nov 15, 2011 at 7:00 AM

        Since when do the inmates run the asylum? The owners make the rules and hire and fire the players employees. Every 5-6 years the team gets turned over player wise. And these idiot players think they can run a team that owners put hundreds of millions of dollars into? They barely have the brains to read a contract and think for themselves! They have to hire lawyers, agents, managers and who knows who else to think for them!

        They better stick to playing ball and saving their money for their old age and pensions. Heaven knows they will have little left after they buy their mansions and pay all their hangers on and pay for all the fancy do dads that they are going to lose on their way to the poor houses.

  14. dkhhuey - Nov 14, 2011 at 3:58 PM

    Ah, the players just really don’t understand how things work. I’ll give you a quick economics lesson:

    You, as the employee, don’t own the team!!! You are merely a person that is getting a check to perform. If you do well, you may get a raise, if you don’t, you may get fired.

    The owners own the product – the name, the brand, the logo, the franchise, the merchandise, the food/drink revenue, etc., etc., etc. They put up the cash, take the risks, and earn the profits.

    The fans – they support the team, not you. Sad for your ego but fans supported the team before you got there, and they will support the team in the future after you leave town. As much as they will b!tch and moan about replacement players, they will be supporting them after a few weeks! They are about as loyal to you as you are to them.

    You, as the players, make MILLIONS playing a sport – you no doubt have p!ssed away the majority, if not all of your millions on cars, women, your posse, houses, clothes, gold, etc., etc.

    The owners have other very lucrative income streams and don’t rely on the NBA cash for their survival.

    You, as the majority of players, will no doubt be suffering greatly without your fat paychecks and you have shot the golden goose that has been feeding you all these years. Your greed over a few thousand dollars in increases has led you to pretty much lose your checks. Nicely done idiots.

    The owners will starve you out because of your stupidity,greed, and bad personal financial management and they will replace you with lower paid employees – hence fattening their bottom lines even further.

    You, as greedy, stupid, and clueless players have played right into the owners hands. They rid themselves of grossly overpaid, whining, egotistical, pains in the a$$ employees with newer, younger, hungrier, less expensive, more appreciative employees.

    Enjoy your vacation!!! Hope you can cash in on those homes and cars!

    • hoopsmccann - Nov 14, 2011 at 11:07 PM

      Very well put Huey!

    • pjmarn6 - Nov 15, 2011 at 7:03 AM

      Right on the button. And after they read your brilliant succinct comment will still be as clueless as ever.

  15. rangerapprenticemom - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:01 PM

    Players get paid MILLIONS to play Basketball. Shut the heck up and PLAY!!!!! I love basketball but will not be watching anymore. As much money as these guys make and it is not enough, it is never enough. Quit your bitching and PLAY BALL!!!

  16. materialman80 - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:04 PM

    Good old fashion American Greed. You just have to love all these whining multi-millionaire owners and players telling the rest of us “they just can’t make it on what they are making”. Kind of makes you sick to your stomach, doesn’t it.

    • oddlittlemonkey - Nov 14, 2011 at 7:19 PM

      its just like when Latrell Sprewell got pissed when is salary went from 15 million to 12 million and said i cant survive on this i have a family to feed, players are overpaid and the owners will when in the courts, NBA will only be missed if fans just cares about the sport and dont watch NFL or MLB, i wont miss it cause i have NFL to watch even thou its only on once a week

  17. sdpaulson - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM

    Thank goodness I won’t have to tune into the last 2 minutes of a game on TV and see 27-1/2 minutes of fouling, time-outs, poor free throw shooting, and advertising. It leaves more time for dancing with the stars…

    Actually I don’t give a rat’s a..ss about the NBA. The pompus a…ss David Stern and selfish players lost me years ago. Just thought I’d throw out a comment to stir up people….

    • leearmon - Nov 14, 2011 at 5:23 PM

      Hmmmm maybe this is the poster child of the “pro-owners” on this site. It’s really sad, and pathetic on so many levels. But even more pathetic is that while PBT blocks my, and other posters comments who only speak of the issues at hand, this above comment from 06mustang can be represented on this site at a moments notice without delay. Maybe Kurt feels this way too?

      • leearmon - Nov 14, 2011 at 8:36 PM

        Oddly enough 06mustang’s post magically disappeared. Interesting ….

  18. pinhead2 - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:24 PM

    Owners paid money to own something, they assume the risk of losing that money to operate and maintain that business, and they did all this to make money.

    Players are employees in the simplest sense. Special, unique employees who need to be highly compensated, which they are. They did not buy in to the league, they were hired and paid to join it. They do not risk their paycheck if the “business” loses money.

    How many companies do you know that give the employees 57% of CRI (Company related income) or anything like that? We do have a unique situation because of the few number of players/employees and their high public profiles, but at the end of the day they still work for the owners. The owners sign their paychecks.

    And as such the owners hold the cards that matter. It’s THEIR business, they get to make final decisions about that business. In the end of all this, whom do you think can hold out the longest? The owners will win, like it or not, and the players will go back to being employees represented by an employee union.

    And I will carry a jaded view of basketball and it’s spoiled players for at least the next few years if not longer. Sorry players if you feel the man is keeping you down, but most folks would just like to get back to a merit raise again.

  19. tlcamino - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:30 PM

    This is nothing but plain greed on both the players and the owners. The owners are billlionaires and want to keep it that way and the players are multi-multi millionaires and want more. I do not feel sorry for either side. Your average fan make 50 grand a year if lucky. Have you tried to buy a ticket to an NBA game it takes half your paycheck. The only ones getting raped here is the fans as usual. Do not try and call this a sport because it is not. Its big business and the playing for the love of the game is gone. I WAS an avid NBA fan but no more. Its greed like this that is ruining this country, the last time I checked I did not see any player that was able to walk on water so please come down off your ego trips and be satisfied with the 40 or 50 million a year you make, believe me I think you will be able to survive on such mediocre pay.

  20. nelle - Nov 14, 2011 at 4:53 PM

    If the owners aren’t scared by this, they are fools, because there is risk involved, and it could be catastrophic, even if the chances of this result are less than 50% – it isn’t zero. Triple damages could put a union award into the ten figure range. Given this, they may say they aren’t scared, but their bluff has been called.

    I expect the owners to negotiate seriously for the first time. They’ll give the ‘well, we thought it best to give a little in order to avoid a court battle and cost the fans a season’ spiel when in reality, they only have to accept a 4.5% *increase* in the revenue split from what they had before. Now if you were advising someone legally, would you tell them to take what equates to 180 million annually more than before, or go to court and risk billions – and potential loss of franchises or franchise value?

    Bet on them negotiating, trying to get the players to go for say… 51 or 51.5.

    • oddlittlemonkey - Nov 14, 2011 at 7:22 PM

      if the courts rule in the owners favor which they will, they will sue the nbpa to pay for court and lawyers fees which they will win again

  21. santolonius - Nov 14, 2011 at 5:00 PM

    kurt, can you do a post explaining how some of the big player moves of recent years (lebron, melo, etc.) might have unfolded differently under the current owners’ proposal? maybe add how chris paul & dwight howard situations might change…

  22. thetooloftools - Nov 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM

    The thumbs up and thumbs down on this page are totally being manipulated. I haven’t seen this many “hits” since all the web pages since the beginning of the strike COMBINED. Go back and look if you don’t believe me. I don’t care if they play or not at this point. I am putting my money on the Billionaires not the millionaires.

  23. toosano - Nov 14, 2011 at 5:17 PM

    F*ck them all. Nobody ever accused players of being rocket scientists. Now, not only will any of them make a dime, the supporting cast and crews who need to make a living are hosed, too. 75% of the players couldn’t make a living outside of B-Ball and 40% of them will get arrested for something or other. This league could go away tomorrow and I wouldn’t miss a thing.
    Amazing, there’s a recession going on and these turds are being pretty damned greedy.

    • leearmon - Nov 14, 2011 at 5:24 PM

      And you have come to your numbers based off of what facts exactly?

      • toosano - Nov 14, 2011 at 8:06 PM

        From the Sports Authority Statistical Gathering Society.
        Jeesh. It was a generalization purely made to further my point, dode.

      • leearmon - Nov 14, 2011 at 8:33 PM

        Your point being what exactly? You did use the correct term “generalization” when commenting though. Saying 40% of the players will get arrested seems to point to something completely different than any point about basketball, it may point to the generalization you have about the make up of the league…

      • toosano - Nov 15, 2011 at 1:10 PM

        You’re right. My opinion is that many, not all, of the ballers are not the most upstanding people compared to other sports. It’s an overpaid bunch of athletes, as are most. It’s a shame that the market bears their salaries, which I will predict is about to self destruct thanks to the greed of both sides. I hope the season is cancelled and they learn a lesson about the stupid mistakes they are both making.

    • nelle - Nov 14, 2011 at 6:16 PM

      Of course, there is no greed on the owners part, what with the players already agreeing to give back 180 million a year.I imagine the owners are all going the route of 501(c) organisations, right?

  24. dcipher80 - Nov 14, 2011 at 5:20 PM

    I think the team reps were the ones that voted, not every individual player.

  25. ghult - Nov 14, 2011 at 5:27 PM

    For me a cancelled NBA season will be just fine. The last several years have gradually turned me against most pro sports. Billionaires versus Millionaires???? With 9% unemployment. Give me a break.

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