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Tide of players turning against Stern’s latest ultimatum

Nov 11, 2011, 7:34 PM EDT

Derek Fisher, Billy Hunter AP

It will not be until the first part of next week that we see officially how the players will respond to the latest ultimatum from David Stern and the owners.

But Thursday night union president Derek Fisher seemed hesitant about it, and as Friday wore on more and more players and owners seemed to turn against the deal the more they learned about it. It showed up in twitter, in conversations with sources, just about everywhere.

Check out this quote from an agent that spoke to Ken Berger of CBSSports.com (and know that this is the prevailing sentiment out there):

“They’ve lost me,” said one of the previously moderate agents. “Three months ago, we thought this would be done. We thought people would be reasonable.”

Players seemed to be echoing those thoughts. Like what the Pacers Danny Granger told Mike Wells if the Indianapolis Star.

‘From what I’ve seen and heard, the counter offer is the same they presented us a week ago, making a few minor changes that in the big scheme of things that really did nothing to the deal. I would expect that proposal to be rejected after all the players learn more about the deal. The next step I don’t know.'”

Check out the tweets below from Jared Dudley and T.J. Ford that seemed to speak for a lot of players.
source:

source:

My guess is the players will try to do what they did last time Stern made an ultimatum — ignore the threat and try to negotiate off this latest offer.

The bigger question is what Stern and the owners do? If they really do revert to his reset offer and the players start the decertification process, well, how do you feel about talking lockout on Christmas Day?

  1. mogogo1 - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:10 PM

    I’m sure the LeBrons, Wades and Garnetts are capable of missing a whole season. But Jared Dudley? He’s set to lose his entire $4 million salary and there’s no huge endorsements for him to live off of. He’s a role player who’s averaged 7 ppg in five seasons–his time in the NBA is about up. Guys like Dudley need to start using their heads because they’re the ones who will be left out in the cold. The players could get the greatest deal on earth and he’d probably be out of the league before he could really cash in on it. Does he get that? Do Fisher and Hunter care about guys like Dudley?

    • mikeewright7 - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:53 PM

      LMFAO!!!!! at Jared dudley horrible NBA career so far lol i like him though, he makes big shots

    • eltex - Nov 11, 2011 at 9:04 PM

      I prefer a full basketball reset. Just ignore the current crop of ‘athletes’, and start fresh with the graduating college kids. Fifty percent would be the max, and having a way to demote the bad players those first few years would be awesome. It would actually provide incentive for them to perform. I have zero sympathy for the current NBA players. Actually, 40% should be the player cut, and they can cut ticket prices to reflect the savings. Making the season 30 games, instead of how many it is now would help decrease the boredom.

  2. mgscott - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:15 PM

    Just cancel the season already

    • mikeewright7 - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:54 PM

      cancel your last comment

  3. packymalley - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:38 PM

    They keep talking about Christmas day games…is that such a big deal? If I am involved with one of the teams that is playing I will probably watch it but it is not like…no game on Christmas…Christmas is ruined. Please! A Christmas without LeBron will be a good thing unless we all want to be reminded what a quitter he was with Cleveland and how the Heat failed as a dream team last year. Enough already. The NBA will learn that when the season is cancelled their fans will EASILY substitute something else with their too expensive product and meaningless season.

    • mikeewright7 - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:56 PM

      you must be a Browns fan or Cleveland fan,
      We want the Nba to start if you dont want it too then go watch golf or re runs of the Parkers on BET

  4. lameasish - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:44 PM

    I agree, cancel the season, I’m with the owners. These players need the owners, not the other why around. NBC can keep writing about how the owners don’t want to lose a season…they are already rich. It seems childish the way they write, the owners do not just own these teams, they have other business ventures, why do you think they can lose hundreds of millions and continue to fund these teams?? The players got away with murder on the last CBA, its time they were brought back to reality. The owners should hold firm and watch the players sell their mansions, cars…whatever else they waste their money on. The world can survive without the NBA (maybe not the people that get paid to write about it lol). It’s the players that cannot survive..they left college too early..

    • stadix093 - Nov 11, 2011 at 9:09 PM

      I can definitely survive without it. I’d rather not though. Give me my NBA back please.

    • noirecissist - Nov 11, 2011 at 9:14 PM

      You have no idea what you’re talking about.

    • deadeyedesign23 - Nov 11, 2011 at 11:58 PM

      1. The owners need the players too
      2. The players wouldn’t need THESE owners if they weren’t allowed to skirt the laws and operate as a monopoly

      Everyone (and I’m not saying you) likes to compare the players to themselves. “Well, if I didn’t like the way I was being treated at work I’d find another job.” What if your boss comes into your office and says “Hey Jim, you’re going to give back some of your salary to me and if you don’t like it you can get another job in Turkey.”

      In addition to acting as a monopoly the draft is similarly bankrupt ethically. 95% of the people who make it to the league because they work almost their whole lives ot that point to get there. While you and I went out on Thursday night in college he was running drills. That’s the dedication it takes. And then once you’re there and you’re ready to reap the benefits of your labor you live and die by a lottery ball. Literally the difference between spending the next 7 years of your life in LA vs. Cleveland comes down to a lottery and your choice is go there or you’re not allowed to work in our industry.

      And a salary cap is bull****. It artificially suppresses player salaries to make LABOR subsidize teams in markets that can’t support NBA franchises. It costs more money to open a Subway In New York than it does to open one in Phoenix, because the one in NY will make more money. Period. Small market teams are not entitled to have a competitive team every year. No team is. Ask the Knicks. The bottom line is teams like the Knicks, Bulls, Lakers etc SHOULD have an advantage. People in those cities pay more, they generate more money, there’s simply more of them. I pay more money to live in NY than I would to live in Minnesota. In Minnesota if I wanted to see a play I’d go see dinner theatre, in New York I see Broadway. That’s the trade off. It’s no different.

      I’m not saying feel sorry for them. They’re millionaires. But it’s completely asinine to think that these are entitled people who are stealing from the pockets fo the owners. If anything it’s the other way around.

      • leearmon - Nov 12, 2011 at 8:22 AM

        See the problem with your comment is that you are using LOGIC & FACTS. Many of the readers here just can’t understand anything past “Players are selfish, reset the whole league, LEBRON IS THE DEVIL!” and all the other hyperbole that seems to run mad in these comment sections.

      • deadeyedesign23 - Nov 12, 2011 at 12:08 PM

        Hah I just don’t get all this hate for the players. It’s like people forgot that the players aren’t on strike, they’re locked out. The owners said you’re not allowed to play until you take a beating from us….which they have.

        The owners are up by 50 points with 2 minutes to go and they’re still running a full court press.

      • borderline1988 - Nov 13, 2011 at 12:16 AM

        “give back some of your salary to me”
        No – see in the real world, you’d just be fired (if your employer is losing money or simply decides to cut costs for whatever reason), not exactly comparable to giving back 7% of your average 5 million dollar salary.
        And noone’s giving back a penny. This is future salary that the NBA is arguing about. Slight difference buddy.

        And please don’t talk to me about dedication. That’s just a bunch of horsecrap. I can promise you that I’m just as dedicated to my job as any of these NBA players are to theirs, evidenced by the number of hours I put in per week (and for the whole year round btw) and I dont get paid $5 million.

        Regarding your argument about bigger-market teams – maybe that’s exactly what sets your side apart from the owners. The owners want parity. You think its better that the big market teams dominate the NBA year after year. Both good alternatives, but since the owners actually own the NBA, they get to decide between the two. And they’ve chosen parity. The point is, that’s ultimately the decision of the owners of the product, not the players.

        Lastly, your comment about the owners stealing from the players:
        I’ve made this point before on this blog, but I’ll repeat it.
        I’m all for the players argument that since they are the actual product of the NBA business, they should get a cut of the income (or revenue in this case). But the thing is, if you want to be a partner in a business, you have to accept the risk of the business as well.
        The players are welcome to just leave the NBA and start their own league. But they would never do that, b/c it means they’d have to accept the risk of ownership.
        Whether or not the NBA is actually making money is something we aren’t privy too. But one thing’s for certain – if a team is losing money, it’s the owner who’s footing the bill. The players are getting paid $5 million on average whether they play for the Lakers or Charlotte.
        This whole ‘cut of the revenues’ thing is BS to begin with. If the players want to make that deal, there should be one caveat: If your team loses money, your salary is nil (technically it should include losses). But the players want the best of the employment world and the best of the partner world.

      • deadeyedesign23 - Nov 16, 2011 at 8:03 PM

        “No – see in the real world, you’d just be fired”

        In the real world you wouldn’t be working for a Monopoly so when you got fired you’d still be able to find another job in your field with out having to move your family to another hemisphere.

        “And please don’t talk to me about dedication. That’s just a bunch of horsecrap. I can promise you that I’m just as dedicated to my job as any of these NBA players are to theirs, evidenced by the number of hours I put in per week (and for the whole year round btw) and I dont get paid $5 million.”

        Because frankly buddy, you’re job isn’t as important as theirs interms of moneys generated. And you’re not as good at it as they are at theirs. If you were one of the 200 best in the world at something, that generated as much money as professional basketball you’d be a millionaire too, but you’re not. Sorry to break it to you.

        “The owners want parity. You think its better that the big market teams dominate the NBA year after year.”

        The Cavs have been to the finals twice in the last decade and the Knicks have barely ever made it out of the first round in that time. San Antonio has won 4 championships. Hell Miami isn’t even a top 10 market. Tell me how we don’t have parity now?

        “b/c it means they’d have to accept the risk of ownership.”

        What the owners want is NO risk of ownership. They want a system where no matter how poorly you run your business you turn a profit. It’s Un-American at the very least. Not to mention the players have already made up the lose the owners claim in how much they’ve given back in BRI. It’s a red herring.

        Not to mention like I said if you can’t turn a profit you should be like any other business and your team should go bankrupt and go away. If I open a Subway in the middle of nowhere and it fails it goes out of business…I don’t expect my employees to prop me up to sustain a failing business.

      • deadeyedesign23 - Nov 16, 2011 at 8:04 PM

        Hah whoops I capitalized Monopoly. So yeah in the real world you wouldn’t be working for a board game…

  5. mikeewright7 - Nov 11, 2011 at 8:58 PM

    YOu guys are all antiNBA SMH!!!! hurry up and make a deal i Miss the NBA…..and i wanna watch nothing but the NBA….
    LEAGUE PASS

  6. rufustfirefly1964 - Nov 11, 2011 at 10:33 PM

    If I’m supposed to feel sorry for either the overpaid prima donnas or the multimillionaire owners, sorry, It ain’t happening. Both sides are a bunch of spoiled children.

  7. stayhigh_247 - Nov 11, 2011 at 10:36 PM

    yeah, and I want Eva Longoria & Salma Hayek in a waterbed at the Four Seasons……Larry, let me know how it works out!

  8. brettmcq - Nov 11, 2011 at 11:01 PM

    Forget them! I don’t need to care about a bunch of rich people arguing about money while I scrape by. NFL cut it close, but NBA is losing games and they lost me!

  9. yournuts - Nov 11, 2011 at 11:59 PM

    Players, players, players! Thats all I hear. Some people think the players walk on water! That is the reason that the NBA is in the mess it is. Player are nothing more than a basketball player and should thank god every day that they have a job and stop complaining about the owners. The owners started the league, and made the players what they are today. Without the owners the players are nothing, absolutely nothing. We now have the give me generation. Give me your business, I’ll put up no money, get paid millions of dollars each year, act any Fu__ing way I want to act, wont be a role model, hang out with Ho”s at strip clubs and tell you where I’ll play! I love this new attitude, that is why I stand with the owners. I hope the players don’t accept this deal and sit the year out without pay and I also hope that we see replacement players right out of college who will value what it should mean to be a role model and thankful for what you have.

  10. thetooloftools - Nov 12, 2011 at 12:56 AM

    The owners are called the owners because of one reason. They own the teams. Players are more then welcome to go play in Europe, but well… we can see how that is working out.
    This all goes back to LeBron James and Chris Bosh willing to go to Miami for LESS money then their own teams were willing to pay them because… well THEY MUST NOT HAVE NEEDED THE MONEY.
    I was screaming when they did that last year that it would come back to haunt the players in the next CBA and was shouted down as a hater, and LeBron basher and on and on.
    Well guess what folks…. I WAS 100% right.
    The message that James and Bosh sent the owners was that you all were OVERPAID and therefor must be collectively punished through reduced pay for all.
    Sorry guys, but this lies at the feet of the players and the Miami Heat but you will never make them own it because NOBODY will admit it for the fear of their wrath.
    Suck it up or shut it down.
    I don’t care at this point.
    Doesn’t seem too funny now.
    Does it?

    • 6thsense79 - Nov 12, 2011 at 7:48 AM

      Wow…that was one of the more idiotic comments on here. So you’re mad at players who were FREE AGENTS for choosing to work at the same company?? And horror of horrors they were willing to do so for less money so you lost the ability to call them greedy. What part of free agent don’t you understand?

      The true problem with the NBA is big market teams are able to sign regional broadcast contracts worth millions per year that don’t have to be shared in the general NBA pool. So instead of enforcing a rule that all revenue be shared similar to the NFL the league tries to lay this competative balance BS at the feet of the players. I say BS because even during its golden years big market teams were overwhelmingly represented in the league championship games. Two teams, the Celtics and Lakers, have played in

    • deadeyedesign23 - Nov 12, 2011 at 12:11 PM

      So you don’t like free agency? Got it. I’ll call Curt Flood and let him know.

      And LeBron is NOT overpaid…he’s incredibly UNDERPAID. In a free market, not one with a salary cap…because this is America, LeBron would make 50 Million a year from his team.

      When Curt Flood was paid a million dollars by the Cardinals before free agency everyone was up in arms. “1 Million dollars for a baseball player?? How much money is there?!” Turns out once oyu remove free agency there was hundreds of millions more dollars.

  11. poorlittlepinkus - Nov 12, 2011 at 2:42 AM

    Actually, I started watching Hockey for the first time in my life.
    Can’t understand why the NHL hasn’t tried to capitalize on the NBA dim-wits and this protracted pissing contest.

    • leearmon - Nov 12, 2011 at 8:18 AM

      I like you enjoy the NHL, however just knowing how diverse this country is, and how diverse of a fanbase the NBA has. I can’t see hockey truly capitalizing on the league’s absence in a major way. Slightly yes, but not to the effect most fans here seem to think.

  12. tapefolie - Nov 12, 2011 at 9:12 AM

    Who cares

  13. jollyjoker2 - Nov 12, 2011 at 5:10 PM

    I think stern should just walk away and see what the players do. He can easily ask…. Did you change your offer? no… okay, You didn’t get that a majority of our owners were losing money? apparently you weren’ t listening.. .Not your problem you say? hmm, I guess you can let me know when you think it is.

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