The 72-10 Bulls–while not being underachievers–underachieved. I have seen their record attributed in large part to league expansion. But what many fans don’t consider (or realize) is that that second three-peat Chicago team averaged 67.7 wins over those three seasons.

In Jordan’s final year in Chicago, they won the finals and had 61 reg season wins. Can anyone in today’s game imagine breaking such a team apart? That’s insane. But perhaps another discussion.

Anyway, as to the greatest teams of all time–and how many people talk about the current Heat team being one who’ll elapse that 72-10 record: those Bulls already elapsed by far over three seasons what the Heat did this year (minus the streak). And fair or not, last season’s championship will always have *shortened season next to it.

Back to the underachievement of the ’96 Bulls: they could’ve won 74 or 75 games. Like you said, MJ never slept. You can damn-well bet that Rodman didn’t either. I remember a game in Denver where they came back from about 30 down to take the lead, only to run out of gas at the end in the thin Denver air. And then a meaningless one-point loss to the Pacers in their second to last game (particularly meaningless because they had already suffered their only other home loss against Charlotte two weeks earlier).

Just look at that line-up: You got Harper, Jordan, and Pippen as essentially three huge point guards at both ends of the floor. And the game’s best ever pure rebounder cleaning up against guys like Ewing, Mourning, and Shaq. Phil Jackson actually had Rodman take Shaq one-on-one to great effect when they swept Orlando in the playoffs.

But more to the point of your comment, I think “the rings” argument that some people make in favor of Jordan is not the decisive point, and potentially misleading. He played on a couple of the greatest teams of all time. What makes him better than Bryant is the clutch-skill he showed as basketball player at both ends of the court over the course of his entire career.

To wit, I’ll finish with a quote from huegtoad upthread:

everybody remembers the shot jordan hit against utah in 98, but i remember the steal he made to get the ball, just tremendous court awareness and timing. my favorite jordan play, game 7 92 east semis, jordan splits double hits lay up, runs back to steal outlet, has ball taken from him knicks throw the ball out to mcdaniels for an easy layup and jordan runs it down and blocks the shot… jordan did [those plays] all the time

Jordan left the game for 2 years in his prime. Everyone knows that Jordan never slept, gambled in everything and still was the best of the best. No one in his Prime came close and there was never an argument. If anything Jordan underachieved based on his time off and lifestyle.

Kobe on the other hand, takes really good care of himself and was never engaged in the extracurricular activities Jordan was involved in.

Physically similar, mentally different, but in the end the competition, rules and gameplay is the main difference. With that said, Kobe would have been pretty dominant in the 80′s and 90′s as well but his numbers would def be lower.

You may not score a bucket in both instances but I guarantee it will be harder for you to play with the hand checking.

People compare the two because they look so similar when they play offense but the main difference is defense. Kobe wasn’t ever a ball stopper and teams never feared him defensively. Another note here is that during Jordans era, defense consisted of basically holding, pushing, and pulling. When Kobe came into the league, it was basically a hands off league. A lot of experts consider this to be a huge change to how the game is played. You still have to have the skills necessary to play the game but without being able to touch the player you are guarding, it makes it easier to shoot and to drive to the bucket. Also, check out how many over 6’10 players there were during the mid 80′s – 90′s. How many great Centers played in the 80′s and 90′s? They clogged up the lane and basically barricaded players from getting to the hole. Cmon, go on youtube and see the difference in style of play. How would certain players react when they get hit with elbows and get held on offense. It changes the dynamics and that is why you no see a league where teams like to run the fast break style of ball. If you talk to a player now, its a technical and back in the day, you would basically take a players legs out and it might just be considered as a hard foul. Style of play definitely dictates the game and I think Jordan played in the tougher era, the more well rounded era and still won all them rings. Have a great day guys

There are a number of different skills for which a basketball player can be judged. Bigger greats, like Wilt or Kareem, play a position that doesn’t require as many skills as those needed by smaller players, whether it be dribbling with both hands, a great first step, the ability to stop and pop, cross-over dribbles, or driving on other players. Their shots aren’t nearly as difficult to execute, although Kareem’s sky hook was as beautiful as it was indefensible and Wilt had the greatest finger-roll of all time. I love stuffs as much as the next former player, but a twisting 23-foot jumper on the move over a hand in your face is a more difficult shot to make than a stuff by a big guy.

The NBA has always been a beautiful ballet by incredibly talented athletes. Enjoy it!

Who was that guy that shut Jordan down? Oh nobody. That is right.

Lets look at defense. I am also a Magic Johnson fan. Remember that defense Jordan stuck on him in the 1991 Finals? Could Kobe have done that? Jordan was very possibly the best defender in the league. I saw him literally deny his player from even seeing the ball for an entire quarter.

The reality is, Jordan never faltered except for his comeback year in the series vs. the Magic when he wore 45. After that, we were back to the flawless Jordan. Kobe never developed a go-to shot as he left his prime in the way Jordan developed the turn around jumper. Jordan improved his defense it seemed every year. Kobe has been falling off in that department for almost a decade. At some point, he just got bored with it and started freelancing.

The rules of the game have changed to give guys who drive and slash an advantage, which is part of the reason the league is so guard-heavy. Great traditional post players are a rare breed anymore in the NBA.

There are some things that many ball players have over MJ in terms of skill. That doesn’t mean they’re as good an overall BASKETBALL PLAYER as MJ. Also, saying Magic is the greatest of all time is a reach, and I’d bet even Magic wouldn’t agree with that statement in a private moment. He’s said publicly that in his opinion MJ is the greatest of all time.

Black mamba plays against much tougher competition and athleticism than MJ did.

They both (Wilt and Jordan) averaged 31 ppt career over 16 yrs. However, Jordan’s averages were consistently high throughout all 16 yrs while Wilt dropped almost 40% productivity after his first 8 years. He went from averaging ~40ppg his first 8yrs to 20ppg his last 8 yrs. Jordan averaged 30+ the first and last 8 yrs of his career. He still dominated his competition as he go older…Wilt wilted a bit when he new centers his size started showing up. Let’s not add to the fact that Jordan has the highest Playoff ppg PERIOD.

When it’s all said and done, I think it will be fair that (1) they are in the same conversation, (2) Kobe gets to Jordan’s scoring level, and (3) Jordan has 1 more ring than Kobe.

As for LeBron not deserving his two MVP’s, that’s just total LeBron hatred. Criticize the “Decision” all you want (and I would agree), but LeBron was just phenomenal from 09-10. I would love to see someone carry his teams to deep runs in the playoffs. His numbers from the 09 playoffs were some of the best all-around basketball of all-time (something like 30-10-9).

The NBA has great talent in it right now and some compelling playoffs. That being said, no one playing right now (or since he retired) can touch Jordan.