Comments on: Kobe isn’t as clutch as you think, but he’s not as bad as some think

By: borderline1988

borderline1988 — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 15:35:09 +0000

There’s no doubt he had an unbelievable clutch shooting season last year (what did he have, like 6 game-winners or something?).
But I’ve always felt that over his career, he’s been over-rated in the clutch. And Kurt Helin is completely right about why….he often takes stupid shots.
For example, last year, The Lakers played my Raptors twice, and both times, it came down to the final seconds. Kobe hit a game winner in the first one. But in the second game, he took a ridiculous fadeaway 30 foot shot. Everyone ooed and awed over how close that shot came to going in, but why the hell would you not use what could be the greatest decoy in NBA history in last second situations?
I admit that giving Ron Artest 3 point looks can be frustrating, but supposing Gasol sets a pick for Kobe, then sets up at the post – give him the ball, let him make one move and go to the basket.

By: arbornicer

arbornicer — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:48:43 +0000

lmao you know i went with what i thought it was about and i didn’t even care anymore

By: brady2welker

brady2welker — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 05:34:28 +0000

Garbage

By: Kurt Helin

Kurt Helin — Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:01:11 +0000

Just for the record, I am a Lakers fan (born in LA) and used to run a Lakers blog before this. And one thing I consistently said at that blog is that at the end of games the Lakers need to run less isolation for Kobe and either use specific sets or just run the triangle. The end-of-game is too predictable, and the result is contested jumpers. Kobe makes some of those, but I still think there are sets that could get better looks.

By: therookie773

therookie773 — Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:32:39 +0000

You can’t really take this research one hundred percent as well and it’s not just because how each person “defines” clutch. Most of those kobes missed shots and I’m making an assumption here (I would like to think a fair one) that most of his supposed clutch shots came from earlier in his career when he isn’t super clutch as he is right now. Because if you ask me, the last few years kobes been more clutch more times than he hasn’t, so I believe this research is irrelevant. Kobe is fucking clutch

By: loungefly74

loungefly74 — Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:49:18 +0000

My guesses…Lebron…Jordan…or Kobe. Don’t know who it is so I’ll just pick 3 biggest “gamers” the past 20 years…:)

By: loungefly74

loungefly74 — Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:39:36 +0000

good stuff gainesweaver. I have read Moneyball and can’t wait for the movie to come out. Not to get too off-topic but it seems like the formula for success (in MLB) was using sabermetrics AND spending $ (i.e red sox, angels, etc..). if i remember right, beane swung and missed on quite a few guys too and that he targeted players who were not heavily targeted by other teams using sabermetrics. If he was willing to spend some real money, the A’s coulda had a couple rings. anyway…
well, i gotta say the guys who play the game and the gm/owners who work the game know a lot and just have insight to things stats and fans just don’t have. if 9 out of 10 dentist recommend Crest, Crest is doing something right! alright, that was a cheesy analogy but it serves the point. so i give value to what the players.
Agree…as i mentioned earlier, “clutch” is an intangible…kinda like “momentum”…it’s just about impossible to come up with a single formula for it…if it even exist!
Ha! Reggie was the man…like Kobe, he was fearless at crunch time.

By: davidly

davidly — Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:16:01 +0000

Who leads the NBA in all-time scoring average in the fourth quarter when his team wins? I’ll give you three guesses.

By: mytthor

mytthor — Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:11:38 +0000

Did you even read the article? He’s criticizing another writer for trying to quantify clutch. Also, Kurt RAN a Lakers blog before he started writing here. You are a fool.

By: wvan10

wvan10 — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:33:15 +0000

Kobe is the clutchest player in the NBA, not because of his Field Goal Percentage in these such situations, (After all some players are in the position to get wide open looks in these situations because of players like Kobe) but because of all the players actually good enough to create his own shot in crunch time (there are only a handful – Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Melo….anybody else?) he makes the clutchest play (either with the shot or the pass). He also is known for ice water in his veins with less than 6 seconds on the clock. There is a reason most GM’s and players would only take Kobe in these situations.

By: lafiredog

lafiredog — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:23:37 +0000

We shouldn’t forget the fact that Kobe’s career started when he was just barely 18 years old…Remember the two airball free throws Dunlevy had him shoot early in his career? He really started to shine as a clutch player about 4 or 5 years in to his career. It would be interesting to see statistics not counting his first few years in the NBA…

By: arbornicer

arbornicer — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:20:17 +0000

This is proof that Helin is a sever Kobe hater. Why would anyone try to quantify clutch? the numbers of points scored in the 4th just show that. how many times does it even lead to a win? Clutch is something that happens in a certain type of moment and there is no algorithm that can figure out all the situations clutch occurs in. The things that we see are what bolster these kinds of feelings and I have never seen a player in any sport rise up in huge moments the way Kobe does where we almost expect them to happen.

By: gainesweaver

gainesweaver — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:30:59 +0000

The points made about the shortcomings of the study are valid. Additional study of other “clutch” situations would provide a much better picture. However, pointing to players and gms is actually a pretty weak basis of evidence for this type of thing. It has been demonstrated time and again throughout sports that the “conventional wisdom” held by the players, coaches and management is often very, VERY wrong once you look at the statistics. Two examples, management in baseball thought it had pretty good ideas about how to analyze players and find diamonds in the rough. “Moneyball” proved that in fact management was pretty mediocre at it and provided a much more unbiased way of finding real value. In football, it used to be a rarity to go for it on 4th down or to go for a 2 point conversion, even in college where the 2 point conversion has been around for decades. But, once stat-geeks started looking at the actual results of 4th down attempts and 2 point conversion attempts, while accounting for distance to gain and score and time, the number of attempts at both shot through the roof in the last 6-8 years (btw, making for a much more exciting game).

So, personally, I’d like to see the guys over at ESPN look at addition types of “clutch” situations. I don’t have a beef with Kobe one way or another. But the first unbiased (by human emotion) study (the study mentioned in the article) seems to indicate that maybe the players and gms are simply mistaken. I’d still take Reggie Miller in a business suit and wingtips coming out of the stands over anybody else in the league.

By: thestudiokida

thestudiokida — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:21:30 +0000

Kobe is a clutch player mainly because he loves putting the team on his back and taking the biggest shot of a game. Even at the professional stage there aren’t many players with that combination of confidence/toughness.

I am the “anchor” bowler of my bowling team and I love an opportunity to win a game or series for my team. I lament all the times I’ve failed and we lost as a result but sometimes I throw 3 perfect strikes and bury the other team. Greatest feeling in the world… even if it is only a recreational sport. So I respect Kobe for putting himself in the spotlight time and time again… even if he doesn’t always come through.

PS Who’s the most clutch free throw shooter? That would be a lot of pressure with the game stopped and all eyes on you? Ray Allen comes to mind.

By: musilly

musilly — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:13:15 +0000

I liked this post but about this use of “you”…it’s kinda off-putting. Don’t put words in others’ mouths.

Why don’t you just say “I?” “I want Kobe on my team” instead of “you want Kobe on your team?”

By: loungefly74

loungefly74 — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:00:42 +0000

nice way to end that article (kobe fan BTW). Agree, love him or hate him, when players and gm/owners are both saying kobe is the man you want at clutch time, he is doing something right. Very smart to discuss the definition of clutch…as an intangible, so many formulas can be used to spin it. i think because kobe plays in a bigger spotlight and generally more meaningful games, his “clutch” performances are magnified…unlike someone from say…sacramento or memphis, etc…