Comments on: Winderman: Jordan would have called Magic and Bird — he wanted to win

By: Fineas

Fineas — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:28:49 +0000

Jordan’s a phony. He can say now that he wouldn’t have left, but that wasn’t what he was saying back then. A few Jordan quotes from the Jordan Rules:
“I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don’t get you the ball.”
“They’ve got no idea what it’s all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don’t have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They’re not good for much of anything.”
“I know what’s gonna happen. We’ll wait until the last minute and then they’ll say something like they couldn’t get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don’t know why I’m surprised every year.”
“Five more years and I’m out of here. I’m marking these days on a calendar, like I’m in jail. I’m tired of being used by this organization, by the league, by the writers, by everyone.”
“They’re not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won’t make any deals to make us better. And this Kukoc thing. I hate that. They’re spending all their time chasing this guy.”
“If I were a general manager, we’d be a better team.”
“I want to prove the critics wrong…I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven’t seen that much of yet, and I want to see more serious attitudes from my teammates this year when it comes to the playoffs. In the past, it’s been more or less a joking thing, sort of a ‘Well, we’re here, so let’s have a good time.’”
Does this sound like a guy who wouldn’t have left to play with better teammates? Is there really a difference between leaving to go to a team with a better chance of winning and repeatedly complaining about one’s team’s inability or unwillingness to surround you with talent? In both cases it is about wanting to win and trying to get into the best situation to do that. There wasn’t real free agency when Jordan entered the league and even when his first contract was up, he wasn’t eligible to be an unrestricted free agent. Back then, a player got his money by signing a long term contract witht he only team he could sign with, which is why Magic signed a 25 year contract and Jordan signed an 8 year deal. When Jordan finally became a true free agent, it was a no-brainer to re-sign with Chicago because they gave him a $30 million contract when nobody else could give him anything close to that. And the Bulls were already the best team in the league (by alot), so there was nowhere else to go to find a better team.
The fact is that Jordan never won anythign without another HOFer in his prime. He played 5 seasons without Pippen. In those 5 seasons his team never finished over .500. It never won a playoff series. And his team was 1-11 in playoff games. Does anyone seriously think that the supposedly “most competitive” person in history would have patiently waited year after year in chicago if they hadn’t surrounded him with talent and one of the best coaches of all time?

By: mookie

mookie — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:14:13 +0000

I think what gets lost in the shuffle is that Pip (one of my all-time favorite players), Grant, and even Kukoc weren’t all-stars when they came in the league. It was Jordan, Phil Jackson, and the rest of the Bulls coaching staff that taught these guys how to compete and win. Pippen, in particular, was molded by Jordan, and even in his Hall of Fame speech, Scottie gives Michael credit for his ascent into stardom.
Dennis Rodman, despite his amazing rebounding and defensive abilities, was seen as a destructive force and most pundits assumed it there was a 50/50 chance of Rodman either helping the Bulls, or outright wrecking the team’s chances with one of his outbursts or antics (much like the speculation on Ron Artest’s arrival to the Lakers). He was made the scapegoat for San Antonio’s failure to win a title during David Robinson’s MVP season and dealt to the Bulls straight up for Will Purdue. I repeat, STRAIGHT UP for WILL PURDUE, who came off his career season of 8 points and 7 rebounds a game. A sure-fire, superstar game changer, he wasn’t.

By: fb

fb — Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:59:01 +0000

Ira, you say the world has changed and then to prove a point, you create a world that never existed. No matter that Jordan’s statement was consistent with his statement years earlier that he wouldn’t have played with Barkley, no matter that Magic said the same thing as Jordan did. The fact here is that LeBron has admitted that he cannot lead a team to a championship despite a supporting cast that wasn’t great, but was good enough. And you’re wrong–the supporting cast was not always there for Jordan, and when they got there, they just weren’t that good. It took time and Jordan’s competitiveness and ability to make those around him better. LeBron James simply does not have that ability to make those around him better.

By: TK

TK — Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:13:35 +0000

I’m glad to see that a lot of people here have some sense of basketball history. In other articles, all I read about from LeBron supporters are that “but they played with hall of famers already!” Not true.
Bird – He joined a team that won 32 games in 1978 and only 29 in 1979 and helped turn them into the best record in 1980 with 61 wins by himself. They later traded away the 1st and 13th picks in the 1980 NBA draft for Parish and the 3rd pick. It’s not like Bird’s running mates were just THERE already. Secondly, albeit a bit subjective, but do you really believe that Parish and McHale would’ve become the players they were had they not played alongside Bird? Didn’t think so.
Magic – Sure the team already had Kareem, but they went 47-35 and 45-37 the 2yrs before Magic came on. That’s hardly an elite team. He made them that much better. Worthy was chosen through the draft and they just kept adding small pieces to the puzzle every year.
Jordan – Check out the Bulls roster in 1989 when they lost to the Pistons in the ECF. Now check out their roster in 1990 when they lost to them again in the ECF. Okay, finally check out their 1991 championship roster. What do they all have in common? Virtually the same starting line-up and bench players. Pippen was pushed HARD by MJ and BECAME the all-around stud needed for a championship. Grant developed into a solid power forward. Cartwright played great defense in the middle. Paxson, Hodges and Armstrong gave them outside shooting. And LeBron supporters act as if Jordan had these pieces in place. He DID, but it took him 4 tries to finally break through.
LeBron’s team (which had the BEST record in the NBA two yrs running) could’ve been on the same path. He simply didn’t elevate the players around him.

By: TK

TK — Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:11:32 +0000

By: ken

ken — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 19:32:27 +0000

Sorry but you are wrong .
This is what bothers me about the Espn babies they dont get that on game day he hated them all, Magic ,Bird,Isiah WHOEVER.
Jordan was after RESPECT he remembered how hard he had to work from the day he arrived to be mentioned in the same breath as Magic,Bird,and the other greats and now look you have Espn calling Bron KING JAMES. Jordan would NEVER EVER Join them because he wanted to stick it to them so bad and beat them every chance he could get.
Im talking rookie year through his first retirement no way would he say Im gonna go and play for the Celtics or Pistons after the way they punished him and made him work.
If you were the best MJ wanted to beat you not join you to go beat lessor teams because his goal was to be recognized as the best. Espn has given all the stature to james and he doesnt respect the game the way the previous greats did .
Lets be real here this is about Wade or Bosh its about lebron and the “supposedly” best player on the best team going to join someone elses team when if he was as good as he thinks they would be joining him.

By: [eter

[eter — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:41:19 +0000

who ever wrote this article is a dumbas..

By: PK

PK — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:42:45 +0000

Would’ve, could’ve, should’ve……yeah…is this how low you need to go to get a job in Florida’s newspapers? Or mr. Ira had just turned 18?

By: Interesting

Interesting — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:12:00 +0000

BS article, written to get page hits (yes, it got mine).
I suspect that most people who believe that Jordan would have pulled a “Super Friends” stunt like this are not old enough to remember Jordan. The man had a personable enough image, but he was cutthroat and competitive beyond all measure. Comments about how wonderful his cast were are largely revisionist. Most of those players would have never been remembered if they were not playing next to Jordan. Pippen was a great player and a most worthy HOF’er, but when you look at posters featuring the stars of that era–think Dream Team with Jordan, Bird, Magic or a poster I remember my cousin had of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Thomas, and Dominique–Pippen was not to be found. He was well-respected and even underrated in some ways, but he was rarely elevated to the level that LeBron and Wade have thus far attained. I am not trying to lessen Pippen; Pippen is one of my favorite players. I’m just saying that his memory is largely enhanced by the championships he and Jordan won together, and Jordan was much more important to that happening that Pippen. Rodman is one of the more underrated players whose reputation was scarred by his off-the-court (and a few on-the-court) antics, but there wasn’t much of a scramble for him the least year or two he was at San Antonio. In my fantasy world that cannot be proven or disproven, I believe that Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman would soundly beat LeBron, Wade, and Bosh…but only Jordan out of that initial triumvirate was considered a bona fide SUPERSTAR (not All-Star) at the time, and a lot of the reason they were a more solid team than this new bunch has to do with their very different roles and the fact that all three of them were excellent defenders. Rodman didn’t want to shoot (though he might knock over a teammate for a rebound). Pippen didn’t mind not being the top dog and didn’t seem to entertain thoughts that he should be (think of the Kobe and Shaq debacle). Don’t get me wrong. Miami will have its day. I would be shocked if they did not win at least a couple of championships. But it will not be this year, and most of this article (and many of the comments it spurred) are short-sighted and speak to the fact that there are a lot of people who remember Jordan and Pippen as legends who never actually watched them play.

By: mike craig

mike craig — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 18:35:30 +0000

Jordan sucked you are truly an idiot for that comment he has never sucked you suck and don’t know anything about basketball all great championship teams had great role players not 3 superstars. wow Jordan sucked idiot

By: mike craig

mike craig — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 18:27:22 +0000

there is no way in the world mike would have called up any body because back then that was not even a thought today’s basketball has become boring and watered down it will never be the same again the love for the game is gone.

By: J Biggy

J Biggy — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:53:50 +0000

You know, all this talk about Jordan and being the man just lets you know how far the game of basketball has fallen. I love the game. I love the sport and Jordan was a fantastic player, but we all need to realize that he is the exception, not the rule. The point has been raised that he had Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant / Dennis Rodman. That is true, but lets just set that aside for a second. There is no question that Jordan was “The Man” on that team, but that is not the way that basketball should be played. It is a “TEAM” game and there are too many idiots on these boards and on the courts leaving comments about being the man. You know what “The Man” mentality has led to? A-Holes like Allen Iverson… Tracy McGrady… Stephon Marbury… etc. Players that want to be the next Jordan, “The Man”. You play this game as a team, you win as a team. Do you know that, other than Kareem (for one year) when he was with Milwaukee, no player until Jordan and no player since has led the league in scoring and won a Championship in the same year. Why? because that is NOT how you win. A team is supposed to play together and I think a lot of people have forgotten that. I agree with Ira Winderman in that Lebron James has never been concerned with personal accolades. He wants to win. People keep saying “Well, I guess Lebron didn’t want to be the man.” or “Lebron couldn’t handle being the man.” I choose to believe that Lebron James was smart enough to see through the BS. The idea of “The Man” is STUPID. Early in his career, Lebron was renowned for his passing ability. He wanted to get the team involved. He knew that would lead to victory. Then he made one pass to Donyell Marshall for a game winning shot in the playoffs and he missed it. After that all the “The Man” morons came out of the woodwork. “Lebron should have taken that last shot.” Why? because that’s what Jordan would have done??? Well you know what? F*** Jordan! As great as he was, he, in a strange way, ruined the team game that Basketball was always supposed to have been. That is why I always submit that the best players to play the game were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. They did a lot of great things, but most importantly, they never would have needed to be browbeat by Phil Jackson to pass the ball to an open John Paxson / Steve Kerr to win a Championship. Come to think of it, neither would Lebron.

By: troy

troy — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 21:28:42 +0000

Ira’s argument is ridiculous! Dwayne Wade is a top 3 NBA player; Chris Bosh top 10. Are people on this forum actually trying to justify LeBron’s move by saying that Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen were top 3 and top 10 players?!?!?!
Nobody is saying that MJ’s team was all garbage. But LeBron’s move is equivalent to Bird and Johnson joining forces or Jordan and Isiah Thomas. Pippen was good, but he was no Dwayne Wade. Case in point, look at how successful Pippen was without Jordan (he wasn’t). Dwayne Wade excelled by himself in Miami.
Also, all these great players that are getting mentioned stayed on their original team which built around them! They didn’t go seeking the best players in the league to win the easy way.
Maybe instead of signing or trading for overrated and old players (Jamison, Shaq), the Cavs should have drafted a young guy to build a team around LeBron.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:54:57 +0000

Stop the group-think, people. Jordan wasn’t in LeBron’s position and has no idea how he’d feel if he was. Simple as that. One player doesn’t win a championship, a team does. Statistically LeBron is Jordan’s equal too, btw.

By: Tony

Tony — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:25:14 +0000

Why, he is a lier! He never won anything on his own. Pippen won every ring for him, yet he wont even talk to Pippen.Most of the Bulls couldn’t stand him! As he gets older a lot of things are comming out about him and he was a pure piece of crap! LeBron, Wade or Kobe are all better than him!

By: Heels & Helmets

Heels & Helmets — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:36:12 +0000

I agree. I don't think MJ can compare his situation to LBJ's. Jordan was never a free agent. Jordan signed a seven-year contract with the Bulls after he was drafted in 1984. In 1988, he signed an eight-year extension. This took him to the mid- 1990s and his mid-thirties. LeBron was a young free agent and every team (along with the rest of the basketball world) had been counting down to July 1, 2010 since the summer of 2006 when he signed an extension with the Cavs. My other points are at this link. http://heelsnhelmets.blogspot.com/2010/07/im-not-sure-michael-jordan-would-not.html

By: NollyGetYourFactsStraight

NollyGetYourFactsStraight — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:05:49 +0000

Nolly get your facts straight
Jordan won in his 7th year, not 9… get your facts straight! and how many Rings did PJ win without MJ or KB? hmmmmmmmmmmm

By: LeDiva Is Wack

LeDiva Is Wack — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:02:02 +0000

Nice one fletch…
I wonder how is LBJ feeling right now? Being looked down by the great ones, what a shame, what a loser…
2007 – Finals
2008 – East Finals
2009 – Best Record in the NBA
2010 – Best Record in the NBA
Is this not a good team? Wow Ira, you are so brilliant to attract basketball fans using your stupidity…
^^^^ This is so freakin true. Why is everyone saying LeDiva didn’t have any talent around him, or his supporting cast sucked. If they sucked so bad, then those 4 years would not have been like that. You don’t win with a suck supporting cast… LeDiva just didn’t have that killer instinct to win when it counted… Lets not forget his shooting % in that last game vs Boston… so please people stop blaming his supporting cast. Cause when ever ANY TEAM in the NBA wins, then people wanna say, the role players are sooooo great, but when they lose, then you wanna say they suck… it’s a bunch of B.S. LeDiva had a good team and him being the leader didn’t LEAD!!!

By: Killer

Killer — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:52:01 +0000

Ira, u r a idiot, who wants to argue, u never played the game of basketball. U don’t know jack. All these comments are meaningless, the bottom line is this, Mike never thought of calling Bird or Magic and vice versa. These guys were basketball junkies and competed at a very high level. Nice try Ira.

By: nolly

nolly — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:46:57 +0000

I agree, Jordan’s remarks were ridiculous. He himself could not have won six rings, even with a great sidekick and supporting cast without Phil Jackson. He never was able to beat Magic and Larry! Just like Kobe, who has not won anything without Phil. Jordan played nine years without winning anything, until PJ came.

By: luffy

luffy — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:48:18 +0000

By: DavidR

DavidR — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 04:10:27 +0000

Right on the Money Fletch..

By: Drew

Drew — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 01:09:36 +0000

What about Barkley, Pippen and Olajuwon teaming up in Houston? They didn’t have the same plan in mind? Granted, they were a little past their prime, but that’s two franchise players and a great role player on one team. It didn’t work out. Is Boston’s Big 3 illegitimate because they were paired together? Nobody thinks any less of those players because they won a ring even though each “failed” individually to bring their teams to the promised land. As Herm Edwards says, you play to win the game. There will still be challenges. The Heat will be playing with a bullseye on their back every single game they play. They will still have to get through the Celtics, Bulls, Magic and probably the Lakers out of the West – no easy task.

By: Larry

Larry — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:27:15 +0000

Bird, Magic and MJ represented a city and organization. The were the #1 player and none would have joined the other. They enjoyed th competition beating each other. that’s called loyalty and being competitive. The 3 musketeers(the Heat brothers) all need each other who were lead players on different teams to win. That’s called being a bunch of sissies. Their quest of owning a ring has taken the personal integrity out of their games. I call it gutless.
Ira is a tool and a sissy.

By: JC

JC — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:02:53 +0000

“he still needed 2 Superstars to get them. (championships)” — Don’t those two superstars need him too?

By: image

image — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:15:23 +0000

I guess the other MJ (magic johnson) is also full of himself if we are to believe winderman here

By: Dat

Dat — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:18:33 +0000

Lebron quited on the Cavs, it digusted that he left the last game with fans booed him. How else do you explain that the team that with best record in the NBA, won 60+ games, then choked in the playoffs? People keep saying his supporting cast sucked, how could it be? they were supposed to win championship last year, supposed to be biggest threat to the Lakers, Lebron supposed to be the best player in the world, they got Jamison in a fishy trade. The Cavs did everything possible to please Lebron. It was a title or bust. People don’t understand how overhyped that Cavs team was. Danny Ferry was supposed to be GM of the year. Lebron won the MVP, he celebrated it like he just won the title. Bottom line is that, Lebron quited, then blamed it on his teammates and the owner. If you are THE MAN on your team, share credits, and take the blame yourself. I believe Lebron is going to regret for leaving the Cavs.

By: BIG JOHN FROM OHIO

BIG JOHN FROM OHIO — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:03:08 +0000

I CAN’T BELIEVE MJ SLAMMED lEBRON LIKE THAT. LOOK LEBRON MADE A GREAT DECISION. WE CONGRTAULATED RILES FOR MANEUVERING THIS TANDEM(LEBRON,WADE, AND BOSH)TO MIAMI. BUT WE FORGET THAT THE PLAYERS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVETHE FINAL DECISION. THIS WAS A BRILLIANT MOVE ON THE PART OF BRON, WADE AND BOSH. LOOK, IF MJ HAD A CHANCE TO PLAY ALONGSIDE MAGIC AND BIRD HE WOULD HAVE. IF CARMELLO COULD PLAY ALONGSIDE BRON AND KEVIN DURANT HE WOULD. IF KAREEM HAD A CHANCE TO PLAY ALONGSIDE RUSSELL AND CHAMBERLAIN, DOES ANYONE WITH ANY KIND OF SENSE BELIEVE HE WOULD HAVE TURNED THAT CHANCE DOWN. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. CAN I SAY IT AGAIN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. THIS IS WHAT MADE THE YANKEES SO GEAT DURING STEINBRENNERS TENURE AS THE OWNER. HE WOULD SPEND WHATEVER IT TOKK TO SIGN 9 SUPERSTARS WHO COULD START ANY GAME AT EACH POSITION. HOPEFULLY HIS SONS WILL CONTINUE THAT TRADITION. IF NOT THEY(YANKEES) WON’T WIN AS MANY CHAMPIONSHIPS. BUT GETTING BACK TO THIS MJ/LEBRON SUBJECT. STOP IT ALREADY YOU SPORTS COMMENTATORS, FANS, AND YOUWO DONT KOW A HILL OF BEANS ABOUT WINNING. LEBRON MADE A BUSINESS DECISION AND A WINNING DECISION AND WAS BRILLIANT AT BOTH. SOMEONE NEEDS TO SIGN THESE GUYS AS THERE NEXT GM IN THE NBA. I LOVE IT AND CAN’T WAIT TO SEE IT IN FULL DISPLAY THIS 2010 NAD 2011 SEASON. WHOOOOOA HOTDAM
BIG JOHN FROM OHIO

By: PippenWasAverage

PippenWasAverage — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:18:35 +0000

Better check your history books there Chris. He NEVER won a scoring title. Just led the Bulls 1 season w/ 22ppg. He was never that good and has 6 rings because he rode Jordan’s coat tails.
Great clip on Pippen’s “greatness”:
However, perhaps the most infamous episode of Pippen’s career came in the post-season of Pippen’s first year without Jordan. In the 1994 NBA Playoffs, the Eastern Conference semifinals pitted the Bulls against the New York Knicks, whom the Bulls had dispatched en route to a championship in each of the previous three seasons. On May 13, 1994, down 0–2 in the series and tied 102-102 in Game Three, Bulls coach Phil Jackson needed a big play from his team to have any chance of going on to the conference finals. With 1.8 seconds left and the score tied, Jackson designed the last play for rookie Toni Kukoc, with Pippen charged with inbounding the basketball. Pippen, who had been the Bulls’ leader all season long in Jordan’s absence, was so angered by Jackson’s decision to not let him take the potential game-winner that he refused to leave the bench and re-enter the game when the timeout was over.
Although Kukoc did hit the game-winner, a 23-foot fadeaway jumper at the buzzer, there was little celebrating to be done by the Bulls, as television cameras caught an unsmiling Phil Jackson storming off the court. “Scottie asked out of the play,” Jackson would tell reporters moments later in the post-game interview room.

By: PippenWasAverage

PippenWasAverage — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:15:58 +0000