Comments on: Laker wins without Kobe do not make LeBron MVP

By: Fred

Fred — Sat, 22 May 2010 10:53:57 +0000

Man Brownsac, I completely agree with you, but with every post, you’re weakening your argument. Kobe is a great player, but Lebron has performed at a much higher level for at least the past three seasons (also, the whole “4 rings” argument doesn’t do it for me at all.)
Not my point. Your posts are brash, ill-conceived, and generally trollish. Internet forums have such a bad rap because people like you have this attitude that “I’m right and everybody who disagrees is stupid, so I need to crudely berate people anonymously via the internet! Grammar be damned!” It’s childish and idiotic.

By: Ted

Ted — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:59:03 +0000

Lebron and Kobe have played eachother 14 times. Lebron has won 9 of those and Kobe has won 5.
Lebron scores more points, averages more assists, averages more rebounds, shoots a higher field goal percentage, shoots a higher three point percentage.
The guy who drafted Kobe – Jerry West – has said that Lebron is the best player in the NBA.
People here say that Lebron failed miserable against the Magic in the playoffs yet he averaged 38 points, 8 rebounds and 8 assists in that series – all better than Kobe’s numbers against the same team.
Lebron’s team has a better record than the Lakers.
Lebron’s team has a better record again the Western Conference than the Lakers.
On an ESPN poll about who is better – 65% voted for Lebron and most of the people who voted for Kobe lived in California.
Lebron is 2-0 against Kobe this year and Lebron severely outplayed Kobe both times.
The only argument that Kobe lovers have is “rings” yet that relies on having several good teamates. When Kobe did not have those teamates he lost in the first round in consecutive seasons and tried to get himself traded.
So if the Cavs win the Championship this season (they are the favorites to win) then will the Kobe fans admit Lebron is better? Because Lebron beats Kobe in each and every imaginable category. Lebron even came in 2nd in defensive player of the year last year and might win it this year.
So will the Kobe fans admit they were wrong if Lebron wins it this season? I mean, the majority of America already thinks Lebron is better. It’s not really even close, Lebron has the highest PER of any player since Jordan and has by far the highest efficiency rating in the NBA (Kobe isn’t even in the top 5).
In fact, Lebron’s last two seasons were better than ANY of Kobe’s seasons.

By: ChrisVillain

ChrisVillain — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 22:32:01 +0000

Also a popular Misconception is that LBJ makes players better,…He does not make players better….FANS tend to confuse making players better with giving players open shots…..Basically every player ever paired with LeBron has seen a hit to their productivity…LBJ is what I call an inhibitor. His needing the ball 75% limits his surounding to just catching and shooting, Instead of make them better he makes them one Dimensional in that they do nothing but catch and shoot. He essentialy is the end and be all of play making on the Cavalier team…So yes James is what we call a Ball Hog in that he is not effective as a player without Dominating the ball……He needs to work on becoming a better player without the ball…..Cavs fans wonder why they fall short every year in the Playoffs regardless of their Record, well it’s because James is a ball hog. It’s the reason your offense is so stagnant when he’s Absent from the floor. it’s not Because your players suck, it’s because they play 82 games a year with with one gay making all the plays for them…they are not accustomed to making plays for themselves and others. This why cleveland will choke yet again…Less lebron and More Jamison Williams Shaq etc….Cleveland needs more of a team effort to be etc. Run Lebron off some screens, Make more passes, let other play get more touches and chances to create for leBron and others….I’ve been saying for years that The Cavs need LeBron assists to come down and for the other players around him apg to go up for this team to be truly great because that would be the indicator of a more team oriented offense which in turn makes the team better as a whole

By: ChrisVillain

ChrisVillain — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 21:57:51 +0000

LeBron will be the MVP this year, But Bryant is still the Best player
LeBron is more of an Athelete than a Player IMO he still does’nt have the SKILL imo to be considered a better player than BRYANT….LBJ is all dunks and layups because of his freakish athleticism…His shot has improved but still isn’t reliable, His post up game needs work becuase of his lack of moves and footwork. The TRUE MVP in my opion is niether…I think That Kevin Durant is most Deserving of the MVP he has less to work with than both LBJ and Kobe, and He’s getting it done in the WEST on a team that needs what he gives them every single night.
But back to LeBron….He is a damned good player, but His statistic have always been Inflated due to the fact that he always has the ball. His Ball domination is the reason e has so many assists per game, the Cleveland offense is basically Lebron win run the play when he passes then you shoot……Taylor made offense for him to have high assist totals…nad he’s a big forward so the Rebs are a given…. That is part of the reason i was never a stat guy because of their tenedency to be inflated depending on your role on the team and the type of offense you play in…..Also LeBron Plays in the EASTERN conference which is the obviously weaker Conference….

By: Foul Dwimmerlaik

Foul Dwimmerlaik — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:38:22 +0000

I beg to disagree that LeBron is a ballhog. He unselfishly creates for his teammates and for this season he has an 8.6 apg. I would hardly classify that as a ballhog. If there’s a point forward, that would be LBJ.
But yes, I agree that his behavior in sportsmanship has still a lot to be desired.

By: Foul Dwimmerlaik

Foul Dwimmerlaik — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:43:10 +0000

I agree.
If we are talking head-to-head matchups between the two as far as stats are concerned, then yes, give it to LBJ.
However, I give MORE PREMIUM on TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS.
If I were a player, I rather be Robert Horry than Karl Malone. Mind, Horry is a vital cog in all of his teams’ championship runs. You just can’t say he road on the coattails of each teams’ elite players.
That being said, I rather be Kobe than LeBron.
Individual accomplishments don’t mean squat unless you deliver your main goal. In this case, taking the trophy home and wearing the bling during half-time break of a game the season after.

By: tony

tony — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:16:22 +0000

when you compare two players you are suppose to be comparing the players and not TEAM accomplishments.kobe did not win those 4 rings by himself.if i had 1 choice i would take lebron over kobe because i would want the player who would keep me out of nail bitting last second shots than to have to have a hope and a prayer shot in which kobe is the best at making that last second shot.lebron is the best ALL AROUND player.

By: Foul Dwimmerlaik

Foul Dwimmerlaik — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:20:26 +0000

I hear you Mike and I do tend to agree with your analysis: it is a team game. Great teammates and chemistry make paths to the promise land whereas one great player can’t do it all by himself.
One thing though to think about: What if LeBron started his fledgling career with a dominant player like Shaq for a teammate just the way Kobe started?]
In as much as Kobe would not get those rings without Shaq, I think it works both ways. Remember, Shaq and his Magic were swept clean by Hakeem and the Rockets in Shaq’s and the Magic’s first Finals appearance.
That being said, LeBron can have the MVP plum every year. What matters is that Kobe and the Lakers get the bling every year for as long as it takes. Hopefully it would be Kobe’s era where the Lakers overtake the Celtics in most number of O’Brien trophies.

By: Foul Dwimmerlaik

Foul Dwimmerlaik — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:18:45 +0000

@Will: Interesting points worth pondering on.
@jordan: Indeed. Kobe took care of business where LeBron has miserably failed. Not only that, LA booted out the Magic in 5 games. Season record doesn’t mean squat except for favorable seeding. A better seed is no guarantee too that it will easily take you to the promised land. Cavs of last year and Mavs of two years ago should know what I mean.

By: jordan

jordan — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:17:03 +0000

No they would not if he was on the team his stats would go way down cause he would not have to take it to the hole anymore he would just be and aev player kobe brings some thing to the team jump shots lebron cant bring that all he be doing is passing and thats what he should be doing if kobe really wanted MVP dont u think he could get it he has every other award what does lebron have 1 mvp. In the first 6 years that kobe played he already had 2 rings 81 point come there no way the lebrons better then kobe kobe is 30 years old so lebron is faster then him now but if it was kobe year he be done and kobe can do it now KOBE BYRANT IS THE BEST IN THE NBA GET OVER IT 4 RING GOING FOR 5 BABY LEBROS GOING DOWN.

By: jordan

jordan — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:05:25 +0000

ur very wrong cause if lebron was the best player with the best team how did they not win last year i think thats call choking Mr.Lebron could not bring his team up there thats why kobe is 10 times the player kobe took dwight down just like the cavs could not .

By: Rich

Rich — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:35:12 +0000

Kobe Bryant is not even #2. Durant, Dirk and Howard are all playing better/and are more valuable than him. Lebron is obvious #1… If you switched Lebron and Kobe …Lakers would be pushing for 70 wins and a cert for the championship…The Cavs would be barely pushing 50 wins and about 4th or 5th in the East.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 02:12:30 +0000

Kobe has 1 Finals MVP!!!
I wish he had more but Shaq has the other 3 MVP’s.

By: #1 LAKERS

#1 LAKERS — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:37:51 +0000

Kobe is the BEST!
Lebron is a Ball Hog/ Selfish. Thats why they got owned by Orlando!
Lebron also doesnt have good sportsmanship…so he cries when he loses
Kobe: 4 NBA Championships
Lebron: 0
Kobe:2 NBA Finals MVPs
LeBron: 0
Kobe: Best in the west!
LeBron: Disgrace to the NBA, Basketball & All its Great Players! Comparing himself to all the great players to play the game. Calling himself “Better”

By: brooklyn kid

brooklyn kid — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:44:09 +0000

LeBron continues to sheet his draws in the playoffs, Kobe has a
handful of rings, that’s why Kobe has to remind The King of NO Ring
to look for his championship rings and now he added another to make it 5. LeBron will soon take a Jet to the arena, Kobe takes a Heli.

By: barrie

barrie — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:56:35 +0000

Oh and IF the cavs can make it past the weak east to the finals, regular season records and stats not counting anymore, the lakers, if they get past denver, will DESTROY the cavs in the finals. they’d be tourists visiting kobeland. A knowledgeable fan knows the post season requires experience in that setting, and except the spurs, nobody has more experience right now than the lakers.

By: Barrie

Barrie — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:42:36 +0000

why isn’t Kevin Durant in this mvp running. mvp isnt about the best player on the best team. The best TEAM means you have all the parts rolling as one. MVP should be the player with the biggest impact on a team, which at this point is Kevin Durant. And this is coming from a 31 year Lakers fan.

By: RLE-SACTOWN

RLE-SACTOWN — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:08:09 +0000

SMUSH PARKER! Really bad player with a attitude too!
As far as Boston, they did handle Gasol, Odom and Ronny Turiaf, but Bynum was hurt that year. If Bynum was healthy, Boston would have lost to LA. The inside game was in bad shape and Ariza was coming off of a foot injury and was not as fluent in his defensive stance as he was in 2009. Gettting from spot to spot was tough.
I agree with you on most other points “Tee Willy.”
However, I do not think the Lakers or Kobe will be Cleveland’s initial issue, it will be Orlando, Boston and maybe Atlanta. They will have a hard time beating Orlando period! Boston would have to stay healthy and KG would have to average 20 ppg, 15 rpg, 3 bpg, and 4 apg. PP would have to average at least 25 ppg. Sugar Ray would need to be at least at 21 ppg. And Rondo, would have to average about 15 ppg. With the addition of Little Nate, they will present some issues for Cleveland.
However, if they happen to get to Kobe and the LA Lakers, Lakers will win in 5 or 6 games!
I do disagree that Artest is a downgrade. They average about the same from 3 point range. Ariza is just taller and quicker. But, he had a difficult time handling Carmelo and Paul Pierce. I think it was the right decision. Artest inside presence is important. You made that point about Gasol not be phyical at times. He has got better this year. The difference for LA in my opinion is Andrew Bynum. If he stays healthy and plays with a little more fire in his belly, there may be only a few teams that could even push them to 6 games. Dallas, Denver, Orlando and possibly Cleveland. Everyone else they will beat in 5 games or less.

By: tee willy

tee willy — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:49:00 +0000

Basketball Fans: Everytime the best is debated its KOBE against some other player; what does that tell ya’ll—-I’d say the proof is in the pudding! We all know how good you have to be to get compared to Michael Jordan right? I love the young talented players out there, of which I’m gonna name a few that have more raw athleticism than KOBE. LeBron–D Wade–Kevin Durant–Rudy Gay–Monte Ellis–Jason Richardson–Vince Carter–even Nate Robinson!!! Kind of reminds me of Jordan vs Dominique Wilkins though—- Jordan was better in every aspect just about, however Dominique could jump over the moon. We all know Dominique got robbed in the slam dunk against Jordan in Chicago don’t we???? All the analysts in the NBA and Players have commented on that—-however. Thats how I view KOBE vs LeBron—Bron, Bron as I call him is easily stalking KOBE. There is no other player in the league that scares him other than KOBE. He knows he can intimidate everybody else; other than KOBE. HE knows if they play head up for all the marbles, KOBE has ice water in his veins, more moves than he would care to see, and the embarassment of losing head to head might send him into hiding Heck, he already ran out like a baby against Howard/Orlando after losing last year. Did you guys notice the same thing in they’re loss to Orlando last week. He left sucking his thumb again as he missed the three pointer. There are some things that come in time—when it’s his time there won’t be a debate—he won’t be scared of KOBE—KOBE will have lost more of his playing ability and LeBron will have developed all aspects of the game evenly. ie; mastered the game—-that might take another year or two. However, people marketing LeBron need him now, they need him to win a championship now. How can you promote LeBron if KOBE keeps kicking his behind, Orlando and Boston keep kicking his behind, looks like Carmelo wants some of LeBRONs behind already, DWade aint far away either. Look folks JORDAN had to wait his turn when Magic/Bird/Doctor J/Kareem and them were the best. So Lebron needs to take his linebacker mentality fast break to the GYM and learn some new skills to be able to beat the best out there. P.S. Who out there is on DRUGS and saying LeBRon doesnt have any team-mates////Have you seen that CLEVELAND had the best record last year and so far to this point this year???? That doesn’t happen with a pick-up team from the park folks!!! KOBE went through 6 to 7 years of hell with really bad players on his team, Kwame Brown and that point guard, I call him that point guard because he was so bad I can’t remember his name. Anyway, KOBE 62 points in three quarters against Dallas/ 81 points agaisnt Toronto modern day/ 60 something in the GARDEN last year and the man was 30/ and every given night teams have to bring their A game to beat the LAKERS and ya’ll are trying to give the credit to soft as warm marshmallows Pau Gasol???? He has skills, but come on man, looks like ya’ll hitting the pipe again. Have we forgotten what Boston did to Gasol and Bynum two years ago??? TITLES are WON by the best players in the League, with a great supporting staff. I don’t hear none of this BAFOONERY about BOSTON—THEY had Pierce/KB/RONDO/RAY Allen/all ALLstars last year or this year. Now they’ve picked up Rasheed for the playoffs and it’s like nothing has happened. Lakers do a downgrade in my book by trading a blosooming player in Trevor Ariza for a tired Ron Artest. If this was Artest of 4 years ago it would be great. Now Cleveland has SHAQ who is playing very good this year/their starting power forward with Verijo and ILguskis will be back in a month and you idiots are telling me LeBRon has no help. Mo Williams Allstar last year, SHAQ easily could have been an Allstar Center, especially in the East, Dalante West—let the chips fall where they may. LEBRON is gonna have to go through KOBE and the Lakers, the way JORDAN had to go through Isaih and the Pistons/Bird and the CELTICs/Ewing and the Knicks. BECAUSE IT’S LIKE THAT, AND THATS THE WAY IT IS!!!!! P.S. It ain’t happening this year either—-look to see him in N.Y. or Jersey next year because he’s gonna need DWade/Bosh/and maybe another star if they wan’t to beat the Lakers—–As long as they have a healthy KOBE BRYANT who hasn’t lost all his ability. He’s too damn smart ya’ll—–Peace Laker Nation!!!!

By: Foul Dwimmerlaik

Foul Dwimmerlaik — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:08:32 +0000

From a scientific point, I guess the only way we will ever know is if LBJ and Kobe switch teams and see what happens…

By: RLE-SACTOWN

RLE-SACTOWN — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:47:52 +0000

Jake you’re kidding right?
This argument reminds me of the old Bigge Smalls versus Tupak argument, west coast versus east coast! Accept instead of selling records, Kobe and Lebron is trying to set records!
In a nutshell, Kobe has all the accolades, and he deserved them! He should have won the MVP at least twice, possibly 3 times already! Should have won the 2002 Finals MVP!
Lebron won the MVP award after year 6. Deserved, but Kobe played better last year throughtout the year. Bad pinkie too! Lebron’s team just happen to win 1 game more than LA and that was enough for the media to vote him MVP. They gave one of Kobe’s to Dirk, and the other to Nash.
I think Cleveland has just as much talent as LA. LA players play in the better system. Yes, they would all play well in a run and gun system, but can Mo run the Lakers Triangle offense? Heck no! Can Delonte West run the second team offense like Farmer or Brown? Can JJ Hickson push the ball like Lamar? Can Lamar post up like Hickson?
These guys are ALL good! If you have ever played at a competitive level with one or two pros on the floor or even top Division 1 college players, you would know that most of these guys are terrific players. It’s not the boys club! It’s the NBA and you have to be good to get there. So, I think systems make players, but very few players make the system.
Lebron plays in a perfect system for his skill level. Kobe plays in the perfect system for his skill level. The difference is that Greg Popovich coaches in San Antonio and his system has produced 4 championships! But Phil’s system has produced 10 rings!
Talent matters! Jefferson is struggling in that system. I think Lebron would struggle with the triangle, but Kobe would thrive in Cleveland’s run and gun system. The Cavs system only mirror SA’s system, Pop is the master of that system. But, even without the right players, he can’t get done. Too bad Horry got old!
I take Kobe and the triangle offense and you take Lebron with their run and gun offense, let’s call the defense even and let’s see which style wins the NBA title this year! I take Kobe!

By: RLE-SACTOWN

RLE-SACTOWN — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:28:28 +0000

Interesting analogy! Because Kobe skipped college as well. But, I get the point. I think Lebron is a stud (using Charles Barkley’s phrase) though! I do think Kobe is the kid that had fun, but when it came down to partying, he would rather hit the books or the court.
All premium atheletes like Kobe and Lebron work their tails off! I think Kobe may have an edge in effective work ethics! He knows how to get himself where he needs to be. Lebron does not play the game better than Kobe. He plays one on one basketball better than Kobe, because Kobe tires got a lot of wear on them. Lebron has not even had to change his break pads yet.
I think their is a difference between athleticism and skill level. Lebron is more atheletic at this stage of his career, but Kobe’s skill level is superior. He thinks the game, knows where to be and how to get to his spot and where the other guys should be for everything to work correctly. Lebron depends more on his atheleticism to beat guys and when help comes he has a slew of three point shooters to pass to. Kobe has very few options at the end of games. He does not have a young D. Fish anymore or a Robert Horry to pass to anymore. If they ever get a knock down shooter on their roster, they will win 3-5 championships before Kobe hangs them up! Joe Johnson may come to LA or Camello in two years.
Lebron may win one in his entire career! Unless he bolts Cleveland and plays with DWade or Chris Bosh or KOBE! If he ends up in New York with DWade, Chris Bosh and McGrady, he will win two after the Lakers number 1 scorer of all time hangs them up. By the way, the Lakers may get DWill from Utah if Boozer bails. They may have to give up Bynum or Artest or Odom, but it will happen.

By: Foul Dwimmerlaik

Foul Dwimmerlaik — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:54:22 +0000

@RLE-Sactown: My points exactly and well put.
MVP title is for the season games and the way I see it. LeBron would likely get it. For me, I really don’t mind. A season MVP does not generally translate to the Best Player of the playing year.
Finals MVP for me is even better. One has to get to the Finals and lead his team there first — against the BEST his Conference has to offer. And then one has to win against the BEST of the other Conference.
Essentially, it’s being the best WHEN IT TRULY COUNTS! That means ACTUALLY DELIVERING the Bling. And none of that non-sense about one star couldn’t have made it without this player or that. In the history of the NBA, there’s no one championship team who won because of just one player — not even Jordan’s Bulls team.
I liken LBJ to a popular kid in highschool — he’s got the chicks, the threads, the varsity jacket and even the accolades of his peers… but never went to college and ultimately get his dream job, whatever that would be.
Kobe would be that other popular kid but not as popular as the first one — although his teachers can see great potential on this one since this kid also gives premium on his academics. He has his fair share of accolades too, but not as much as the other. He gets to finish highschool and gets to an Ivy League school then goes claim his dream, his promised land.
And that’s where it ultimately counts!

By: RLE-SACTOWN

RLE-SACTOWN — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:46:57 +0000

Gav, you heard it here first! If the Lakers win and Kobe wins another Finals MVP, the argument would also be settled of who is the best. At least until the following season.
I will also bet you a steak dinner at Jordan’s Steakhouse at Grand Central Station in New York that Shaq will call Magic, Kobe and Dr. Buss and ask him if could finish his career in LA. He will then pronounce Kobe as the best running mate ever! He will throw the King under The Q and say they lost a chance at the Champioship because Lebron does not have Kobe’s killer instinct and Coach Mike Brown should convert to Zen!
The Lakers winning without Kobe does not make Lebron the leagues MVP! His team just loss 3 games in a row without Big Z! But, he was in the lineup!

By: RLE-SACTOWN

RLE-SACTOWN — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:21:33 +0000

Lebron has better athleticism! But, he never participated in or won the slam dunk contest like Kobe when he was young. HaHa!
Lebron definitely saved a franchise. I am originally from Ohio, born and raised. I am not really a Lebron fan, but I have a ton of respect for him as a baller and as a businessman. He seems to make great decisons on and off the court. The whole, not shaking hands with Orlando is understandable. I think if he was on the other side of the court when the game was over, he probably would have shaked a few hands.
I agree with your comment about maturity at 25 years of age. Kobe did shoot his team in and out of games too often. But, I think that was because he felt like he was competing with Shaq all the time. He never got credit when they won, only when they loss.
lebron has not had to deal with that in his career. Two stars in their primes can be a bit much when the ego is as big as Shaq’s.
Shaq is easily the biggest opportunist in the league. You can argue that he has rode the coat tails of both Kobe and DWade to get a chance at championships. He tried with Nash too. I’m not mad at him, that’s pretty smart on his part. With Kobe hurt in 2004, Shaq could not get it done. They doubled and triple teamed Kobe and made Shaq beat them. He was handled by Wallace and Wallace.
You take Kobe and Dwade away and how many rings does Shaq actually have? The Magic beat MJ and Scottie and got hammered by the Rockets in 95. Shaq had Penny, Horace and even Nick and could not get it done.
As fas shooting, Kobe also played with Glen Rice early on and they just had too many guys wanting the ball. I remember NVX just coming across half-court and launching a three. He may have had Rick Fox on one side and Kobe open on the wing, Horry tailing, but he would just jack it up!
As far as all stars are concerned, Gasol is the only other all star on LA’s roster. Artest has not been an all star in 5 years. Mo was an all star with the Bucks, but they could not pick him over Redd or Bogut. Three all stars from Milwaukee would be an insult to the league. So, I can’t agree with you that Lebron made Mo an all star.
By the way, Lebron had Boozer and Z early on and both made an all star team in Cleveland. The reason Lebron has to score in the 4th quarter is because his team builds big leads, lose them and they have to make comebacks. In the east mind you!
I do agree that Lebron is playing better this season, but he also has a better supporting cast and he plays in a system that is run and gun. No team wins in the NBA without established stars! Name one team in the last 30 years to win with a single all star!
Lebron plays with Shaq right now. They have Jamerson and they have one of the best three point percentages in the league. I do believe they have guys that can play. Hickson is inconsistent, but he is a good player. Shaq can still carry a team for 10-15 minutes a stretch. Especially when they have no inside presence like Atlanta.
I feel that the order for the MVP right now is LBJ, Kobe, KD and argubly DWade. If the Lakers end up with the best record and Kobe finishes with a 28.5 scoring average, he’ll win the MVP! But, the best case scenario in my opinion is that it’s settled in the finals! The utimate Finals MVP! Like Bird and Magic. Magic 2(85,87), Bird 1(86). They did not meet but three times in the finals. But, Magic got his team to the NBA Finals a total of 9 times (80,82,83,85,86,87,88,89,91). Kobe has been there 6 times (4 with Shaq, two without Shaq).
Championships matter. I find it interesting that almost every Lebron fan downplays the significance of proving your greatest when it matters the most. He has yet to do it! And, if he does it this year guess what, he would have done it with Shaq. Go figure.
They won’t win though. Kobe and the Lakers in 6 over anyone in the east. Orlando could push them to 7, but no one else in the east can push LA to 7. Boston at best would be in 6. Maybe Charlotte! But they have to make it to the playoffs first!

By: Gav

Gav — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:44:24 +0000

Sac Town r you serious? LeBron was drafted to save a franchise, Kobe was drafted to fit in a as a role player with Shaq, EJ and van exel. as for who i would rather have when the game is on the line, for the last second buzzer beater i woudl have to say kobe, for the whole 4th quarter before that, ill say lebron. lebron has led the league in 4th quarter scoring avg and in playoff points.
lebron has not been banged up because he is a freak of nature man of steal with great conditioning, please do not use that as an excuse ofr your guy.
lebron is not just raw power dude, see all the ast, blocks, jumpshots etc etc. if you said raw athleticism youd have an argument, but you would still be wrong.
lebron is also 25 years old and fundamentals come as the game progresses and players lose their athleteicism. lebron is 25 now, kobe is 31. do not tell me kobe is the same player he was at 25, he was jacking up bad shots, playing 1 on 5 and making his teammates hate him. At 25, lebron playes methodical pick you apart basketball and his teammates love him, even if he has to go 1 on 5.
kobe has won at the highest level sure, i dont think he isnt great, but what are the facts? shaq was the most dominant big man of that era, won an mvp, and 3 finals mvps. if u dont think kobe was replaceable on that laker team in 2000-02 you are dreaming. see 2005-07 to see what a kobe-led team with no other all-star does: no playoffs, out first round, out first round respectively. he needs to play next to stars w/ talent like shaq, pau, odom, bynum and now artest because he is limited in teh ways lebron is not. lebron made williams an all star and the other players into soild players, kobe needs established all stars, sorry!

By: RLE-SACTOWN

RLE-SACTOWN — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:28:32 +0000

Consistentcy should matter. Come on Gav. Lebron went to Cleveland and they had who, a young Carlos Boozer and Big Z? Oh yeah, Ricky Davis.
He had to score and had free reign! Kobe had Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Rick Fox, Robert Horry and of course, Shaq. He did not need to score. He split time with EJ for 3-4 years. He only average 17 points a game for his first 4 years. I thnik this argument is wasteful. Situationally, who would you rather have when the game is on the line?
I bet even Lebron fans would pick Kobe over Lebron down the stretch. And, more importanly, they play different positions anyway. Lebron is a 3, can play 1 or 2. Kobe is a 2, can play 1 or 3. But Kobe plays 2 and Lebron plays 3. They are the best players in their positions, period. If they swapped teams, Lebron numbers would dip in almost all areas. And don’t tell me his assist would go up! LA does play a run and gun game each night. They play half court sets. Ball goes to the post and out to the shooters. Lebron would have to adjust his power game. See Ron Artest! Why, because he will not have to do as much anymore. Longivity wise, what’s better? He will begin to wear out in 2 years if he does not change his game. Remember Earl Campbell. You could argue he was the best ever for 5 years! Remember Ron Harper, he played a lot like Lebron and probably was the closest player talent wise to MJ, when MJ was in his prime. Injuries kept him from the Hall! He won 4 rings with with Chicago and LA though.
Just look at Camello. He is banging every night and he has been banged up for the last two years. Look at DWade. Same thing. I think Lebron has been very fortunate up until this point and has remained healthy most of his first 6 years, and 57 games in year 7.
He is raw power right now, period. Kobe is raw talent. The more fundelmentally sound player. Ask Lebron what he learned from Kobe during the Olympics! He said being around Kobe helped him evolve his game. He actually started playing better defense. Kobe is a baller! Lebron is a baller! They are both the best in the game. Kobe gets the nod because he has won at the highest level. Even if you take his 3 titles away for the moment and focus on the one he got without Shaq, it’s still 1 more than Lebron has gotten. By the way, Kobe had 3 by 24. Unfortunately, if LBJ does win it this year, it would be with Shaq as well.

By: Gav

Gav — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:43:23 +0000

to all my fellow lebron/cavs fans, lets stop talking about the kobe v. lebron mvp or better player debate b/c its not really a debate anymore. Three years ago maybe, now no. the statistics speak for themselves, kobe fans find them hard to answer so they bring up subjective opinions (kobes more clutch, kobes got a killer instinct) or something irrelevant (kobe’s got more titles). Kobe has played in 6 finals, 1 finals mvp, he has played 14 season and one regular season mvp. The statistics on pts, blocks, stls, rebs, fg% speak for themselves. And if kobe fans wanna talk clutch, lebron leads the league in 4th quarter points and has a higher career scoring avg than kobe. if laker fans want to call their franchise superior to the cavs org, nobody could disagree. but conflating best player and better team to prove kobe is better is really ridiculous, especially in 2010

By: RLE-SACTOWN

RLE-SACTOWN — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:33:50 +0000

Fellas! Let’s be real here. No player, not franchise in the history of the NBA has ever won a title without talent and that talent meshing.
Philadelphia 76ers! In the 1980′s, say from 1980 to 1986 had the best talent assembled, maybe since the 1960′s Celtics. How many rings did they win? Just one in 1983. Why did they finally win a title? They got rid of George McGinnis and brought in Moses Malone and Billy Cunningham finally got the players to play together. By this time though, Dr. J was worn down from carrying his team all those years. He retired with just 1 ring.
Talent does matter. Cleveland is loaded with individual talent just like LA. LA has better fundamentally sound players. These players know how to elevate their games and execute without key players. They have a better coahing staff and better way of playing the game. Cleveland typically plays and open floor game, run and gun, which is why they can win in the regular season. LA uses the regular season to work out the flaws of the offensive and defensive schemes. Run and gun teams typically cannot win in the NBA playoffs, because teams adjust more easily, the game slows down and guys are tired.
When you have an offense that can play inside out and run when it is required because of the flow of the game, you win championships.
If yo look at the teams who in the last 10 years or since 2000, it is evident that balance is the key. LA, SA, Detroit, Miami, Boston, all could run, defend, play half court sets and play a balanced game.
Cleveland cannot and will not win unless they can do this. Phoenix, Dallas, Cleveland, NJ, Portland, and Utah could not. The only teams that could that did not win were Sacramento, Houston and Indiana. They all had one common issue. LA Lakers. They were better in the early 2000′s and last year.
As far as who is better player. During the regular season in the last two years, maybe Lebron. I think Kobe should have won last year though. LBJ only got it because they ratings would have been off the roof if the Lakers and Cavs made it to the finals. Kobe deserved the the regular season MVP last year. But, he got the Finals MVP, so he did get an MVP last year, and another ring.
For those of you bashing Kobe. He is a shooting guard. Shooting guards, shoot the ball. It’s their job. Kobe shoots more in the triangle offense and his percentage goes down because he gets the ball late in the shot clock and sometimes to late. The ball sticks alot because Artest, Gasol and Bynum holds the rock too long. Kobe also has an issue with his finger when he gets popped on it and it’s a problem. He gets hacked more than LBJ period. LBJ usually creates the contact on his drives and he gets hacked and goes to the line. You can call a foul on almost every contested drive to the hoop. So, he drives and deserves to go to the line most of the time.
So, who is the best player in the game? Well, the guy that is now considered the best says it’s Kobe Bryant. Are you going to argue with Your Airness? I think MJ would know. Kobe has the best footwork arguebly in history of the game at the shooting guard position. MJ was even a step behind Kobe is this area. Ask Phil. MJ was a better finisher at the hoop. Kobe was a step behind MJ in that area. Kobe does not attempt to take guys to the rack as much, because he evolved his game and he posts up more, like MJ in his last 7 or 8 years.
MVP’s are great awards to win anytime you can get one. However, there is one MVP that each player covets a little more. Finals MVP! Until Lebron gets a final MVP, he’s cannot be in the best conversation. Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Miller were all fantastic players. Neither ever won the hightest leagur honor. Even DWade has obtained that honor.
I do not see LBJ getting to the finals this year. They will have a hard time getting past Orlando again. See Sundays game as the reason why! They will have a difficult time beating Boston with a healthy Garnett, PP, Sugar Ray and the most unbderated player in the league right now, Ronjon Rondo. They will have a hard time with Atlanta. LA however, will beat both Dallas or Denver. They nmay get pushed to 7 with Denver. Dallas may push them to 6. If you think Portland should be in the conversation. Okay, 5. SA is relevant, in 5. Utah, in 5. The upstart Thunder, maybe 5, but likely a sweep!
The Lakers will repeat. If they stay healthy, they will win in 6 against Boston or Orlando. If Cleveland somehow makes it. I say they will beat the Cavs in 5. Why, because they will not be able to adjust to a more complete team like LA. Once LA adjust, like by game 2, it’s over.
LBJ, Kobe and Kevin Durant for MVP in that order right now. If the Cavs keep backpeddling, and LA ends up with the best record, it will be Kobe. Why, if they meet in the finals the ratings would go through the roof!
Sorry for the length of this post!

By: BOB

BOB — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:46:58 +0000

Everyone knows that Cavs would be horrible without Lebron. Lebron-less Cavs are about equal with the bucks. Also the Cavs are in the east which is obviously worse than the west. Never the less, Lebron is a better player right now than Kobe but Lebron’s team could not win enough with out him. Lebron doesn’t jack up 20 some shots a game like Kobe but he gets at least 15 free throws a game. Kobe used to do that when he drove the ball more but now he just takes more jumpers.